I have been looking all year for madtoms. Haven't seen one yet. I'm in NE TN. Anyone have pointers on where, when to look?
madtom habitat
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, Jul 13 2007 02:06 PM
19 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 02:15 PM
I have been looking all year for madtoms. Haven't seen one yet. I'm in NE TN. Anyone have pointers on where, when to look?
Riffles in large streams and rivers for most, though northerns, and brindleds are more likely to be found in pools with debris.
#5
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Posted 17 July 2007 - 05:35 PM
There are Mountain madtoms in the Nolichucky. Also up in your area if you are on the Clinch and Powell you need to be really careful about madtoms because there are two fed listed species up there along with mountain madtoms. For a person unfamiliar it can be tough at first telling the all apart. Mountains are usually larger and darker with less distinct black saddles. I've had no problem in the past finding mountain madtoms while ,seining snorkeling or on mussel surveys when digging substrate in several different rivers. They are frequently under shells of dead mussels or large cobble and boulders. If you go a little to your west and can find access to a shoal to the middle and lower French Broad mountain madtoms are everywhere. They are in thick clumps of riverweed and again under bigger cobble and boulders. In the Holston upstream of the Watauga there are stonecats, mountains, and margined. Not sure if above Watauga is also trout water like below is though; you wouldn't be able to seine if it is trout water.
#6
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Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:43 PM
We recently found a tadpole madtom in an empty pop can. Others I've found along the sides of slow moving rivers in clumps of debris. In faster-moving streams, I've found them in wads of macrophytes in riffles.
You see! And everybody thinks I just make stuff up!!
#7
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Posted 18 July 2007 - 10:57 AM
Great advise guys. I'd thought from reading up on madtoms for a while that they were everywhere, and it seems y'all agree. I guess since I've been seining creeks or Noli nearly every weekend for months, I figured I'd surely see some sometime. Guess I still haven't looked in the right places...... By the way, when I first started keeping darters, I would worry about affecting populations. Since then , it seems I see them everywhere I look! Also, I've heard of a Little Chucky Ck. madtom here in Greene County that only lives here.
#8
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Posted 18 July 2007 - 06:12 PM
I was part of the last years survey efforts for the Chucky madtom. No madtoms in several years now. Little Chucky Creek isn't that great to start and there is very little madtom habitat. The one stretch usually has taken hours of effort to turn up one. Actually Dave (Neely) aren't you one of the last people to get any? I'm pretty sure its only 11 have ever been collected. Anyways we trapped seined shocked dug looked up tribs historical sites all up and down the drainage and got nothing. Lots of bullheads though and just the usual small stream fish community. We did find a new population of tennessee dace on the bright spot. I'm sure the volunteer group that is active in the watershed would love a new volunteer.
Great advise guys. I'd thought from reading up on madtoms for a while that they were everywhere, and it seems y'all agree. I guess since I've been seining creeks or Noli nearly every weekend for months, I figured I'd surely see some sometime. Guess I still haven't looked in the right places...... By the way, when I first started keeping darters, I would worry about affecting populations. Since then , it seems I see them everywhere I look! Also, I've heard of a Little Chucky Ck. madtom here in Greene County that only lives here.
#9
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Posted 19 July 2007 - 02:44 PM
Sad to hear no great comeback on Chucky Madtom. I will probably never even visit the creek for fear of negative "footprints". I am however a little proud of the fact they only live here (if they still live anywhere).
#10
Guest_Scenicrivers_*
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Posted 19 July 2007 - 02:58 PM
I have been looking all year for madtoms. Haven't seen one yet. I'm in NE TN. Anyone have pointers on where, when to look?
One way that you may be able to find specific information on were fish have been collected is your state EPA. I know in Ohio you can download or request biological and water quality reports on watershed. Fish data is included in Ohio's reports. Thie fish data includes stream name, river mile, township, county, bridge crossing, the species collected, numbers, etc... for example http://www.epa.state...ex/psdindx.html.
OEPA almost always collects at bridge crossings, so this is easy access. They also electro fish. So most of the species present at that section will be listed. Just make sure you ask land owner permission to access the stream!
#12
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Posted 23 July 2007 - 01:02 PM
Have you caught madtoms before? I only recently caught my first madtoms- slender madtoms in Kansas, using the rock flipping with the net downstream method. Iturnrocks for all kinds of animals.
I have caught madtoms mostly in riffles (in Ohio). One time on Ohio Brush Creek (awsome creek) while I was measuring stream flows for OEPA the person and I were catching stonecat madtoms with our hands. That was pretty cool. But usually I just put a net below a riffle and kick a few rocks.
#14
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Posted 25 July 2007 - 03:43 PM
No, I have never seen a madtom before, and I'm very excited to catch one. Surely before cold weather, I will.
Someone said mountain madtoms are in Noli, and apparently are not on any list (protected, endangered). Is this the only species in the river? If so, I'll assume if I catch one, I can keep it.
Someone said mountain madtoms are in Noli, and apparently are not on any list (protected, endangered). Is this the only species in the river? If so, I'll assume if I catch one, I can keep it.
#15
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Posted 25 July 2007 - 08:09 PM
Mountain madtoms are the only extant madtom in the Nolichucky proper. There is one (maybe two) of the handfuls of records of chucky madtoms from the Nolichucky from quite a while ago. You'd be pretty safe to assume that if you catch a madtom there its a mountain but there is always the slight possibility it's not. If you can find an image or two online of each I'd familiarize yourself the best you can.
#16
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Posted 26 July 2007 - 04:18 PM
I'm not joking here, but, since this is the case - and people have backed you up - would it be safe to say that you could actually bait madtoms by placing a few empty pop cans in a particular spot you think madtoms might show up and then wait a day or two and come back to collect them?I look for small clumps of vegetation - there are almost always madtoms in there. Also empty drink bottles and cans.
#17
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Posted 26 July 2007 - 04:40 PM
I'm not joking here, but, since this is the case - and people have backed you up - would it be safe to say that you could actually bait madtoms by placing a few empty pop cans in a particular spot you think madtoms might show up and then wait a day or two and come back to collect them?
Yes, the best way to catch madtoms for scientific purposes is often to put out cans and come back the next day. It's not a guarantee, but many madtoms spend much of their time in nooks and crannies that are very hard to net them out of.
#20
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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:18 AM
I looked for stonecat madtoms everywhere in Pottawatomie county KS, never found any. All the sudden one summer there were slender madtoms everywhere! It was actually hard not to catch one. But no stonecats. Which is really weird cause the only madtoms supposed to be in Pott are stonecats. I guess things have changed since the last publication of Fishes in Kansas.Have you caught madtoms before? I only recently caught my first madtoms- slender madtoms in Kansas, using the rock flipping with the net downstream method. Iturnrocks for all kinds of animals.
Edited by joemueller, 22 June 2012 - 01:39 AM.
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