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Darter

Started by Guest_teleost_* , Aug 06 2007 09:21 PM

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38 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:21 PM

Sorry about the poor photos.

I'm having a hard time remembering the water exactly where this fish came from (anyone please feel free to correct me). I recall this was water just below the main channel run. The substrate was small rock (under 2") in water over 2' deep.

This fish is about 1.25" in total length.

Thanks for looking :smile2:

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#2 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:30 PM

without intent to sway anyones reply, but to let you know whats available......

We are looking at percina...
River darter
channel darter
blackside darter
frecklebelly darter
Logperch darter
sharpnose darter
dusky darter
gilt darter
Pretty well covers what is in that drainage.

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#3 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:33 PM

Well since there is a list to work off of from Frecklebelly down are right out of the question. If we're stickign with the list it looks like a river darter to me though I've yet to see one, or channels.

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#4 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:36 PM

Matt,

Is my description of the water right?
Should I post the darters that I'm calling young Dusky darters?

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#5 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:36 PM

Well since there is a list to work off of from Frecklebelly down are right out of the question. If we're stickign with the list it looks like a river darter to me though I've yet to see one, or channels.

Sad to say Matt, those are the primary two in question. I have seen river, and I ain't feeling it. But channel, I have never seen.

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#6 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:38 PM

Yes, you should. And your description is right.

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#7 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:42 PM

yeah I definately think its river or channel. thankfully etnier and starnes have horrible pictuers, pflieger doesn't even have any, and everything else is in my office. Looking at the river anal fin though and thinking of snail darter anal fins it doesn't look right to me....though I guess it could be a female...that dorsal saddle is what makes me think river...and the somewhat appearance of the first saddle at the dorsal fin origin.

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#8 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:46 PM

oh and the gravel in deep water in/below a run...that size this time of year....Imostoma YOY...

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#9 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:47 PM

I would like it to be that.

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#10 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:55 PM

who wants to count scales? I'm on a crappy laptop and I don't do meristics at 11 pm ... the more I look at it the more I see river darter though..

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#11 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 09:57 PM

Sorry again for the photos.
The following fish came from the same site but different areas within the stream. I personally can't tell you exactly what type water they came from.
I have limited experience with P. sciera but I can only guess this is what I've photographed here.

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Both fish near the 2" mark and not more than an 1/8" over that, tops

Edited by teleost, 06 August 2007 - 10:04 PM.
added size information

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#12 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:01 PM

If I recall correctly though these two fish came midstream in a fast riffle less than 14 inches deep. Maybe shallower.

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#13 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:01 PM

P. vigil? no suborbital bar though...hm

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#14 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:03 PM

I vote shumardi on the first one. That eye stripe is pretty distinct, although life colors can lie. However, the mouth is too terminal for copelandi, although I'm only going by books and pics, not experience.

The second one (glad I just scrolled down) is definately sciera.

That was a funny trick Uland. I went to reference the picture again, and I got all paranoid that I was seeing things lol.

C'mmon give us the arrow darter eye candy dangit!

Todd

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#15 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:08 PM

I Id'ed the second two fish as channel on the stream. They were both under an inch and a half, and had an odd irridescence to their spotting at first. But I have never seen a channel. I have a habit of talking myself into ID's. but the caudal is wrong for sciera, or is the spotting on the caudal of Dusky, a function of age?

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#16 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:08 PM

yeah I guess I was just not seeing the caudal spots and still lack of sub O bar...
I just talked to tyler today actually...if I remeber correctly its a GREAT picture

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#17 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:10 PM

I vote shumardi on the first one. That eye stripe is pretty distinct, although life colors can lie. However, the mouth is too terminal for copelandi, although I'm only going by books and pics, not experience.

I have to say Shumardi on that as well..I'm pretty familiar with Copelandi and the fish does not look very typical (Well typical for our variety up here). Mouth is off and the markings, especially those found on the anal, are not consistent.

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#18 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:23 PM

The first photos do appear to be shumardi, such as I've seen of them, and the second I don't know. Black & brown darters are the cruelest of all.

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#19 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:24 PM

but the caudal is wrong for sciera, or is the spotting on the caudal of Dusky, a function of age?

More so just a function of overall mood, habitat, or storage. The only time I've ever seen the color "dusky" is in the Tippecanoe, and those were on hot dog sized fish.

Also... maculata's caudal spotting is much more discrete than that blob.