On the second fish I think I'm going to go with "I don't do meristics at 11 pm" either but actually that looks more like a correct Copelandi....I'll look at it in the morning and compare it to some I have in the collection and cross reference it..
Darter
Started by
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, Aug 06 2007 09:21 PM
38 replies to this topic
#22
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:33 PM
It looks a whole darn lot like the photo of channel in fishes of tenn. I think this fish's back is straighter, and leads to it holding its head higher, which skews the snout.
#23
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Posted 06 August 2007 - 10:46 PM
Oh, count the dorsal rays, and the soft dorsal rays. Makes it channel.
In fact after counting spiny, and soft dorsal rays on all of these photos, and referring to fishes of tenn. It makes them all copelandi, if we are only considering sciera, copelandi, and schumardi.
In fact after counting spiny, and soft dorsal rays on all of these photos, and referring to fishes of tenn. It makes them all copelandi, if we are only considering sciera, copelandi, and schumardi.
#24
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:02 PM
we need a definitive ID on these fish. Mr. Neely, where are you?
#25
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:43 PM
Stab in the dark here but did anyone get a pic of the throat and belly???? Thats the only thing thats missing that would make me really want to say copelandi on that second set of fish....First I still really think are schumardi..
#26
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 09:25 PM
Nope we blew those pics.Stab in the dark here but did anyone get a pic of the throat and belly???? Thats the only thing thats missing that would make me really want to say copelandi on that second set of fish....First I still really think are schumardi..
I believe those fish are channel darter. I am still lost on the first. It by counts cannot be a river.
The first darter, I was stuck on percina for a while, but I am not sure that it is not a heavy pigmented female tippecanoe at this point. We did find two males
#27
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:50 PM
I looked at this breifly last night and i kinda thought that looked awfully Etheostomaish but I was pretty sleepy and wasn't too sure what I was thinking. After looking at it again I'm thinking it could very well be a female Tippecanoe. That dark saddle may just be some sort of injury mark or something. Hard to say for sure though. I would definitely like to here what Dave has to say on this one...
#28
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 03:27 PM
I looked at this breifly last night and i kinda thought that looked awfully Etheostomaish but I was pretty sleepy and wasn't too sure what I was thinking. After looking at it again I'm thinking it could very well be a female Tippecanoe. That dark saddle may just be some sort of injury mark or something. Hard to say for sure though. I would definitely like to here what Dave has to say on this one...
Okay, new info... In looking at my newly acquired copy of Freshwater Fishes of Virginia which came to me through the most random of ways (I have a new "take everywhere" book), I think it can be said confidently that the first fish is in fact a female Tippie.
I still stand by sciera on the second fish, until Dr. Dave says no
#29
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Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:02 AM
hey guys,
I think Todd's right on both, though it would be a big tippie. Caudal peduncle on the first fish is mighty deep for a Percina, and the pale areas on the cp base suggest a Nothonotus...
sorry for the slow reply, I've been kicking around Yunnan and haven't had consistent net access. I'm leaving Gongshan tomorrow for a couple weeks of fish collecting in the Dulong Valley - a remote, sparsely inhabited valley in the Irrawaddy drainage on the border between China and Myanmar, so I'll be out of touch for a while.
Todd, congrats on getting Jenks' book, it's a real gem. Supposedly ~1000 pages of additional anecdotal info and meristic tables got cut out by the editor, would LOVE to have the original copy that went to the editor!!
cheers,
Dave
I think Todd's right on both, though it would be a big tippie. Caudal peduncle on the first fish is mighty deep for a Percina, and the pale areas on the cp base suggest a Nothonotus...
sorry for the slow reply, I've been kicking around Yunnan and haven't had consistent net access. I'm leaving Gongshan tomorrow for a couple weeks of fish collecting in the Dulong Valley - a remote, sparsely inhabited valley in the Irrawaddy drainage on the border between China and Myanmar, so I'll be out of touch for a while.
Todd, congrats on getting Jenks' book, it's a real gem. Supposedly ~1000 pages of additional anecdotal info and meristic tables got cut out by the editor, would LOVE to have the original copy that went to the editor!!
cheers,
Dave
#30
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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:40 PM
I hate to do this, but even though Dr. dave spoke, I still believe these may be copelandi. Do some counts on them.
Uland, can you post or link us to a full size photo?
Uland, can you post or link us to a full size photo?
#31
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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:15 PM
To add to my case, from my reading Channel darter are highly variable, and likely to be split into several sub species or species. This is a photo I snapped out of the Audubon field guide Plate 272. We all know this is not an ID book, but this fish is remarkably similar. I am not trying to question those who know more than me, just asking if you could show me why these fish are juvenile dusky rather than channel.
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channel.jpg 25.48KB
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#33
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 08:08 PM
Look at everything from the eye forward. The snout length is quite telling. I think if the Audobon channel darter wasn't turned, you'd see a big difference in the mouths as well. You can kinda see that curved lip feature. Since we don't have scale, you might also try doing the "length of eye" and how many eye times from the eye to start of the dorsal fin you get. And if you want to get back into life colors, the caudal spot on the channel is tiny. Your fish has that good ol' dusky blob.
We gettin' anywhere?
Todd
We gettin' anywhere?
Todd
#34
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 08:20 PM
No, I want this to be a channel. Worse comes to worse, you guys should just let it be a channel, just for me. I know it is a long shot.
#35
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 08:31 PM
No, I want this to be a channel. Worse comes to worse, you guys should just let it be a channel, just for me.
This regional variant shall now be known as P. sciera var. copelandi [De La Vega].
Will that do?
#36
Guest_teleost_*
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 08:59 PM
This is the best I can do here. Perhaps this is the darter we'd been looking for.
fake_darter.jpg 14.28KB
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Please note: the above is a a poorly edited photo purely for entertainment purposes
fake_darter.jpg 14.28KB
0 downloadsPlease note: the above is a a poorly edited photo purely for entertainment purposes
#37
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:49 PM
You know what they say about darters with short snouts....
#39
Guest_NateTessler13_*
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Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:50 AM
This is the best I can do here. Perhaps this is the darter we'd been looking for.
Please note: the above is a a poorly edited photo purely for entertainment purposes
hahahahahaha...this is too much for me
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