Help Please!

I recently joined, and regretably found out that it is illegal to collect or posses natives without a permit... right now the only permits are giving to ed. or sci. research...
I want to work with the ODWF and the other enthusiasts like me, and meet a center ground. What I need is a plan from another state that enables for the collection, or at least the keeping of native species. Right now in Oregon it doesn't matter if I catch it in a net, trap, or hook, if it ain't dead it's illegal.....
I am trying to work with the head of the freshwater game, but he isn't happy about it... too many non native invasives... too many natives, moved to the wrong location... damn... look at the river lampreys we have out here... I understand what they are talking about...

What I am trying to do, set up a permit system, set of requirements.... I don't know about you.. but I have only been doing this for a week, but I would shell out 50$ for a permit! I want to enable serious people, let the passive user buy a goldfish at walmart....

Am I wrong here?? can anyone help me??? Is it possible to balance US with Them??? Please Someone HELP ME!!!!!!! Can't fight this one alone!

I'm not sure where to start here....

I suggest getting to know the guys and gals. I'd work on a well planned list of questions and bounce them off friends and family for a while.

I also think that putting yourself in their shoes will help a lot. Once you get to know them, I think that you'll find that it's really not an "us and them" situation. They want to protect the wildlife and you do as well. You don't want introductions outside natural range and they don't either. We're all on the same page and once all parties understand that, it's just a matter of working out the details.

I am trying to work with the head of the freshwater game, but he isn't happy about it... too many non native invasives... too many natives, moved to the wrong location... damn... look at the river lampreys we have out here... I understand what they are talking about...

Not that I disagree with you or wish to distract but what do you mean by "look at the river lampreys we have out here"..I'm not aware of this being an invasive issue. In fact it is a serious conservation issue as these fish are in heavy decline in the region. You are aware that Lamprey are native to Oregon right????

Pardon me if I just misread you here...

Not that I disagree with you or wish to distract but what do you mean by "look at the river lampreys we have out here"..I'm not aware of this being an invasive issue. In fact it is a serious conservation issue as these fish are in heavy decline in the region. You are aware that Lamprey are native to Oregon right????

Pardon me if I just misread you here...

Yes they are native, yes they are part of the ecosystem.... but people used them as bait where they aren't native, aren't part ot the ecosystem, have no predaters... and are now listed as 'invasive'
What I want is 'RESPOSIBLE" care takers, that won't dump their fish, that will keep there 'native', native....

I am sorry if I offended you... because the only time out here you see lamprey's are breeding season, but I want to keep native, what it is... no cross contamination, no infestation...
as I see it part of joining and being part of this is conservation... I want my grandkids to see what NATIVE is.. not what 'we' dumped in there..

When I mentioned the lampreys, I was talking about cross contamination.... they are wonderful native, but not where they don't belong... I don't want carp, bluegill, bass taking over my trout pond, and I don't want the reverse either...

I want nature as nature planned it..
So If I offended you I am sorry............

Yes they are native, yes they are part of the ecosystem.... but people used them as bait where they aren't native, aren't part ot the ecosystem, have no predaters... and are now listed as 'invasive'

I do not take offense and I understand what you are saying, but I have no references or documentation of Lamprey species being moved around in this manner or of them being invasive. If anything the data I have is that they are seriously in bad shape and of the populations that do exist many endemic forms are being found that where previously not known of for some time. Many of these populations are close to gone as it is and recovery in some is not by definition healthy in this case, it is just reappearance due to more attention being put on sampling them..

I'm not aware of cases where interbreeding or introduction has resulted in loss of a genetically isolated lamprey population or in them taking an invasive form in Oregon (or all of the Northwest for that matter).

If you have details regarding Lamprey being relocated and being invasive in the Pacific Northwest I would like to see it.

For some reason it's illegal to fish for or posses lamprey in washington, I'm not sure why (I don't think their numbers have declined, but maybe I'm wrong).

If nothing works out with the government you could move to Washington State as a protest .

This would no doubt be a product of Chas's personal conversations with the local DNR.

Like BrookLamprey said, it helps to have a personal relationship with your local DNR guys. This may take some time, but you will find that you are both on the same side, and there will be some give and take.

Other than that, all I can say is that the west coast is tough for native fishkeepers. There are guys who have no problem buying or trading natives from other states, even in Kalifornia (People's Republic of), but I can't speak to the legality of it, not being familiar with all the ins and outs.

This would no doubt be a product of Chas's personal conversations with the local DNR.

Like BrookLamprey said, it helps to have a personal relationship with your local DNR guys. This may take some time, but you will find that you are both on the same side, and there will be some give and take.

Other than that, all I can say is that the west coast is tough for native fishkeepers. There are guys who have no problem buying or trading natives from other states, even in Kalifornia (People's Republic of), but I can't speak to the legality of it, not being familiar with all the ins and outs.

I am humbled before your wisdom Irate My example was probably not the best example, I should probably have used the weedy much we see in all the ponds out here, or the zebra mussels, or some other irrefutably invasive.
To Brooklamprey, I have nothing against lampreys infact I remember being fascinated with them as a kid... I am sorry for using them as an example, and as for proof, all I have is what was told to me while talking to odwf, that is the example he gave and I plagarized it... (that is what I get for not thinking for myself) As for finding any evidence of such.. I can't find any at all... every place I find anything it is local salmon fishermen complaining about bites on their catch... Now as I understand it, once the eels are in the river it is breeding time and they are no longer feeding, so the bites aren't local... Either way. my bad for not checking my facts, and I sincerely apologize!!!!!!

Anywho... to get back to my original plea... I am looking for a workable plan that I can take to odwf, and my local politicians... Any ideas?

Hey, wasn't somebody else working on the same thing in another state? Who was that???? You NANFA-L die-hards ought to remember.

I remeber bringing this up on the email list about siz months ago. My specific train of thought was if NANFA should take a proactive/lobbying approach, similar to what AFS is now doing, to protect bait collection rights and/or advocate for responsible personal collecting. The "I'm collecting bait" isn't going to work forever. There are some states that have great regulations that clearly spell out what you can use, where you can use it, what you can keep, how many you can keep and others are muddier than a torrent stream. There are also people in permitting positions in states that have no clue about non-game fish species, responsible collecting, NANFA, naturlists, or even the professional scientific need for collection. There is often a void between fishing license collecting and scientific permits created by many of the states regulations that could be filled nicely by a naturalist permit. This could only be obtained through hard work and dedication to show good intentions, knowledge, and many voices.

I'm not sure how helpful this would be but know that in Washington and probably in other states you can propose a fishing rule change and it will be posted on the web and considered by the game department. Is that a possibility in Oregon?