Long Term Pirate Perch Project

Last weekend I decided to move some fish around. I had a sunfish grow out tank in the basement and had tanks upstairs that could be combined. Earlier this year I sampled a site with a bazillion pirate perch many were the size of my pinky fingernail. I kept 16 of them in a bare bottom ten gallon and it was time to bump them up to a larger tank.

I moved a little bit of hornwort into the tank and added more lighting. I'm planning by spawning time the tank will be filled with plants and a mess of frisky pirate perch. I left the tank "as is" from the sunfish grow out and merely added light and live plant material. I'm just guessing this general layout will be suitable.

I'll be sure and add info as things develop.

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What temp. are you keeping them at? I've thought about keeping and maybe trying to breed them, but everything I've read says they have to stay at like 65F and I don't have the money for a chiller.

What temp. are you keeping them at? I've thought about keeping and maybe trying to breed them, but everything I've read says they have to stay at like 65F and I don't have the money for a chiller.

The temperature in the tank is ambient to my basement. Recently it's been about 68 degrees. I would not hesitate to keep them warmer as they don't seem to be a cool water fish. I don't think temps for captive care should be of concern at all with this fish. You certainly don't need a chiller unless you have extremely hot temps. Think warm water sunfish temps when you think of P. perch.

What do you feed pinky-fingernail-sized pirate perch?

Ed,

They absolutely LOVE live blackworms. I always have them around for smaller and more picky fish. Since you brought up feeding I guess I should add a little detail about getting them to grow for me. I fed the young fish daily a healthy portion of blaclworms about an hour before the automatic lighting system turned off. The Pirate perch showed great variability in size within a month despite being almost identical in size upon collection. Even though the three larger fish could easily consume the remaining 10+ fish, I've not lost a single fish due to cannibalism. Pirate perch growth rate was pretty fast at such a young age and the larger fish show no signs of stopping at this time.

They also seem to tolerate a wide range of water conditions. I had no choice but to place them in an uncycled tank with a size III Hydrosponge filter which I seeded with filter cleanings from another tank. Due to my heavy feeding schedule and fish per gallon ratio, I performed 95% water changes weekly if possible but missing a week never seemed to effect this durable fish. They quickly recognized me as a food source becoming excited when I entered the fishroom. They would usually begin snapping about if I entered the room in the evening.

I began introducing frozen shrimp as a food source after two months with limited results. They have not yet warmed up to the idea of a motionless food. Many fish would eat the shrimp but not all. Since I'm attempting to breed them this spring I didn't want to sacrifice growth for a less expensive food source.

Ed,

They absolutely LOVE live blackworms. I always have them around for smaller and more picky fish. Since you brought up feeding I guess I should add a little detail about getting them to grow for me. I fed the young fish daily a healthy portion of blaclworms about an hour before the automatic lighting system turned off. The Pirate perch showed great variability in size within a month despite being almost identical in size upon collection. Even though the three larger fish could easily consume the remaining 10+ fish, I've not lost a single fish due to cannibalism. Pirate perch growth rate was pretty fast at such a young age and the larger fish show no signs of stopping at this time.

They also seem to tolerate a wide range of water conditions. I had no choice but to place them in an uncycled tank with a size III Hydrosponge filter which I seeded with filter cleanings from another tank. Due to my heavy feeding schedule and fish per gallon ratio, I performed 95% water changes weekly if possible but missing a week never seemed to effect this durable fish. They quickly recognized me as a food source becoming excited when I entered the fishroom. They would usually begin snapping about if I entered the room in the evening.

I began introducing frozen shrimp as a food source after two months with limited results. They have not yet warmed up to the idea of a motionless food. Many fish would eat the shrimp but not all. Since I'm attempting to breed them this spring I didn't want to sacrifice growth for a less expensive food source.

I have bred pirate perch before although not with the rather nice setup you are using. Very interested in repeating with more natural breeding group with multiple males and females that are conditioned in a tank. Pirate perch can be trained to consume chunks or worm impailed on a wooden skewer.

I have bred pirate perch before although not with the rather nice setup you are using. Very interested in repeating with more natural breeding group with multiple males and females that are conditioned in a tank. Pirate perch can be trained to consume chunks or worm impailed on a wooden skewer.

Yes indeed P perch will eat just about anything on a stick. I prefer to use the coated wire used to secure children's toys as a skewer but just about anything works. I had a nice group of pirate perch that ate sinking pellets for the longest time until the pellets were too small for the largest fish. I had to go back to frozen foods for him and the other smaller fish soon "untrained" themselves and reverted to frozen.

I've found that I can use a Skewer for a while then just drop food in the tanks for them. It takes a little patience but works.

I plan on simply letting the P perch spawn in the natural vegetation/debris and letting the eggs mature in the parent tanks. I'm most curious about natural breeding and not so much producing large amounts of young at this point.

Might you have any tips on how to proceed?

Yes indeed P perch will eat just about anything on a stick. I prefer to use the coated wire used to secure children's toys as a skewer but just about anything works. I had a nice group of pirate perch that ate sinking pellets for the longest time until the pellets were too small for the largest fish. I had to go back to frozen foods for him and the other smaller fish soon "untrained" themselves and reverted to frozen.

I've found that I can use a Skewer for a while then just drop food in the tanks for them. It takes a little patience but works.

I plan on simply letting the P perch spawn in the natural vegetation/debris and letting the eggs mature in the parent tanks. I'm most curious about natural breeding and not so much producing large amounts of young at this point.

Might you have any tips on how to proceed?

If I had your setup I would get some filter pads / sock (white kind) as used with external box filters (Penguin brand I think). Mount pad on frame provided without charcoal. Place pad and frame at end of tank so that it provides a vertical surface males can stack up around. They seem to jossile in slow motion for position around pad. When a ripe female approaches at least one male will position himself next to the female as she nudges pad with her snout. When spawning imminent the fish will simultaneously extrude gametes from urogential opening, into buccal cavity by way of gills and out of mouth into pad. We called it transbranchioral spawning. Milt goes flying everywhere. If the pading is white you can see the yellowish area where the eggs are placed. The matrix of the pad is similar to a root wad usually used in nature plus easier to manage. I think making the pad more similar to a root wad under a cut bank also helps get males to go to the pad versus depositing clutches of eggs hap-hazardly around tank. I think rearing large numbers of pirate easy but I am more interested in behavior than numbers. I recomend feeding the larvae brine shrimp at first even though large enough to tackle large prey. Daphnia would be a great nest step.

If I had your setup I would get some filter pads / sock (white kind) as used with external box filters (Penguin brand I think). Mount pad on frame provided without charcoal. Place pad and frame at end of tank so that it provides a vertical surface males can stack up around. They seem to jossile in slow motion for position around pad. When a ripe female approaches at least one male will position himself next to the female as she nudges pad with her snout. When spawning imminent the fish will simultaneously extrude gametes from urogential opening, into buccal cavity by way of gills and out of mouth into pad. We called it transbranchioral spawning. Milt goes flying everywhere. If the pading is white you can see the yellowish area where the eggs are placed. The matrix of the pad is similar to a root wad usually used in nature plus easier to manage. I think making the pad more similar to a root wad under a cut bank also helps get males to go to the pad versus depositing clutches of eggs hap-hazardly around tank. I think rearing large numbers of pirate easy but I am more interested in behavior than numbers. I recomend feeding the larvae brine shrimp at first even though large enough to tackle large prey. Daphnia would be a great nest step.

Interesting. Thank you very much for the advice. I will indeed fabricate filter pad structures and presumably move the pads into a rearing/hatching tank of the same water as the parent tank once I observe spawning.

Do you think I'll get a decent spawn from one year old fishes?

Interesting. Thank you very much for the advice. I will indeed fabricate filter pad structures and presumably move the pads into a rearing/hatching tank of the same water as the parent tank once I observe spawning.

Do you think I'll get a decent spawn from one year old fishes?

If pirate perch like most other species, size is much more important than age. Pirate perch of southern Illinois and southern Indiana easily reach the minimum size for reproduction by the time one year old and they appear to associate with breeding sites / root wads just as much as the 2 and possibly 3 year olds. The fish we used were a mixture of one and two years olds based on size distribution I recollect. If your pirate perch are growing like most fishes kept indoors on quality food offered frequently and large enough volumes, then they should get larger their wild peers. The challenge I have had is getting them primed for reproduction with the appropriate temperature and photoperiod regime. Once particulars of husbandry worked out I bet you could compress the winter conditions into a couple of months and get some serious spawns as the early spring conditions are simulated. Got a fridge?

If pirate perch like most other species, size is much more important than age. Pirate perch of southern Illinois and southern Indiana easily reach the minimum size for reproduction by the time one year old and they appear to associate with breeding sites / root wads just as much as the 2 and possibly 3 year olds. The fish we used were a mixture of one and two years olds based on size distribution I recollect. If your pirate perch are growing like most fishes kept indoors on quality food offered frequently and large enough volumes, then they should get larger their wild peers. The challenge I have had is getting them primed for reproduction with the appropriate temperature and photoperiod regime. Once particulars of husbandry worked out I bet you could compress the winter conditions into a couple of months and get some serious spawns as the early spring conditions are simulated. Got a fridge?

I sampled the location I originally collected the fishes from and indeed noticed that my largest fish at home were nearly three times the size as wild fish and my smallest were nearly double wild fish. I guess this goes to show there isn't a free ride in nature.

My basement fishroom is insulated/isolated from the rest of the house. I'm certain I can manage 50 degree conditions from Dec-Feb. Do you personally believe 50 degrees F will be low enough to "overwinter" them? I can control photoperiod easily and use supplemental heating to coincide with increasing light if 50 F will do the trick.

It's ironic that you bring up the fridge comment as I currently have a new group of fish I'm keeping in a dorm fridge and I need some help.

I sampled the location I originally collected the fishes from and indeed noticed that my largest fish at home were nearly three times the size as wild fish and my smallest were nearly double wild fish. I guess this goes to show there isn't a free ride in nature.

My basement fishroom is insulated/isolated from the rest of the house. I'm certain I can manage 50 degree conditions from Dec-Feb. Do you personally believe 50 degrees F will be low enough to "overwinter" them? I can control photoperiod easily and use supplemental heating to coincide with increasing light if 50 F will do the trick.

It's ironic that you bring up the fridge comment as I currently have a new group of fish I'm keeping in a dorm fridge and I need some help.

I do not know if 50 F will be cool enough. It is likely a function as to where your pirate perch are from. If from southern part of range then maybe. If from northern part of range likely not. Based on experience with bantam sunfish where cool down required to get females to put on egg mass if they were from northern part of range while southern females not so particular. Males easier to condition than females.

I compressed a fall-winter-spring sequence for crayfishes into 90 days. Key to success having propsective brooders in good shape during fall (simulated). That is time for critical early development of eggs produced by some species of early spawners. Ideally fish will feed through winter to keep weight on and maybe increase a bit. Found live food to be the way to go for winter period. Have you ever reared the amphipod Hylella azteca or blood worms? Pirate perch definantly feed up during winter and the amphipod likely a good source of pigments and fats needed for egg production. I would try to get temperature down to lower 40's to upper 30's for at least a couple weeks. Temperature change should be gradual. Lights I used mimiced sunlight. Light on timer placed in fridge. Short duration, low intensity going into cold and high intensity (close to tank) as simulated spring approaches.

When spawning imminent the fish will simultaneously extrude gametes from urogential opening, into buccal cavity by way of gills and out of mouth into pad. We called it transbranchioral spawning.

This is interesting. I've read that some believe the pirate perch has the forward urogenital opening because they are mouthbrooders. Other reading suggests this theory has been discredited. From what you describe here, it looks like the spawning method is the reason for the forward urogenital opening.

This is interesting. I've read that some believe the pirate perch has the forward urogenital opening because they are mouthbrooders. Other reading suggests this theory has been discredited. From what you describe here, it looks like the spawning method is the reason for the forward urogenital opening.

Pirate perch not mouth brooders. Seen them spawn and and we and others have found developing embryos and prolarvae in root wads. Too many eggs produced for mouth should have been evidence against mouth brooding all along. Yes, I think spawning method over riding factor for morphology and similar to situations known or hypothesized for the related cave and spring cave fish types including the swamp fish.

I do not know if 50 F will be cool enough. It is likely a function as to where your pirate perch are from. If from southern part of range then maybe. If from northern part of range likely not. Based on experience with bantam sunfish where cool down required to get females to put on egg mass if they were from northern part of range while southern females not so particular. Males easier to condition than females.

I compressed a fall-winter-spring sequence for crayfishes into 90 days. Key to success having propsective brooders in good shape during fall (simulated). That is time for critical early development of eggs produced by some species of early spawners. Ideally fish will feed through winter to keep weight on and maybe increase a bit. Found live food to be the way to go for winter period. Have you ever reared the amphipod Hylella azteca or blood worms? Pirate perch definantly feed up during winter and the amphipod likely a good source of pigments and fats needed for egg production. I would try to get temperature down to lower 40's to upper 30's for at least a couple weeks. Temperature change should be gradual. Lights I used mimiced sunlight. Light on timer placed in fridge. Short duration, low intensity going into cold and high intensity (close to tank) as simulated spring approaches.

My fish are from middle of the range (as far as North/South). I'm looking at wine fridges now.

I've not had the best of success with raising foods. I think my limited space combined with regularly being out of town for a week at a time has something to do with this. I do have a local pet shop that always has live Blackworms for a fair price. This makes up most of my live feeds.

My fish are from middle of the range (as far as North/South). I'm looking at wine fridges now.

I've not had the best of success with raising foods. I think my limited space combined with regularly being out of town for a week at a time has something to do with this. I do have a local pet shop that always has live Blackworms for a fair price. This makes up most of my live feeds.

Define limited space. Cultures I use require a maximum of 4 square feet.

Being out of town for a week at a time not problem for fish in simulated winter. I checked on mine at 3 day intervals for water changes and feeding. If you had a Hylallea culture going it requires roughly weekly maintenance. Applications of live food of the correct volume should last about three days before consumed. Longer and nutritional quality will decline. Are blackworms grown in a fridge?

Define limited space. Cultures I use require a maximum of 4 square feet.

I have 4 square feet but not refrigerated. I currently need about 1/2 pound of live feeds per month. I'm not sure I can produce this amount with such little care.

Being out of town for a week at a time not problem for fish in simulated winter. I checked on mine at 3 day intervals for water changes and feeding. If you had a Hylallea culture going it requires roughly weekly maintenance. Applications of live food of the correct volume should last about three days before consumed. Longer and nutritional quality will decline. Are blackworms grown in a fridge?

I believe blackworms are pond cultured. Are Hylallea and bloodworms refrigerator cultured? I had no idea you were talking about refrigerator cultured foods.

I have 4 square feet but not refrigerated. I currently need about 1/2 pound of live feeds per month. I'm not sure I can produce this amount with such little care.
I believe blackworms are pond cultured. Are Hylallea and bloodworms refrigerator cultured? I had no idea you were talking about refrigerator cultured foods.

Hylella and blood worms can be cultured at room temperature in aquariums. I will look up methods later today. I have seen it done and required little skill.

Pirate Perch Protest, did you say? Count me in!

I must wonder though...are these interesting aquarium fish? I've always been intrigued by them but they don't seem like they'd exhibit many behaviors in the aquarium...at least while you are looking during the day.