I am in the process of setting up my 120 gal, and I have decided to use coarse sand. I understand I need some critters to stir it up, but I dont know what kind of critters these are. I caught some crayfish, but they dont seem to dig in the sand much, of course they may do it at night when the lights off. Ive heard people mention worms in the sand.
What kind of other critters or aquatic worms can I get that dont turn into flying insects?
-Thank you
Need Sand Critters
Started by
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, Sep 04 2007 12:28 PM
19 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 04 September 2007 - 02:12 PM
I like using Malaysian Trumpet snails. They eat all the dead stuff and left over food but also leave the live alone. They burrow in the ground in the day and come out and up the sides of the tank at night. I bought a dozen from an online source, with a few months I was transferring the extras into other tanks. Some people feel they are a nuisance because of the fast population rate. But if you have crays or any loaches they'll help keep the population in check.
#3
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Posted 04 September 2007 - 10:56 PM
It's not really necessary to have critters to turn the substrate. Bacteria do well enough on their own.
However, if you want to take the closed ecosystem into the next level, you can try some oligochaetes. Others have suggested seeding with blackworms and seeing where that goes. Also, cobicula and pea clams do very well if there's enough fish poop going about. The corbicula will be the better of the two as a bioturbator, but they'll both add some ecosystem function to the system.
Me, I've always enjoyed having things fly off. I kind of go for the "seed it and see what happens" model. I found a large dobsonfly larvae about a month ago that had to have been in there for at least a year. I fear he's bit it though, as I had to finally break down and treat a reocurring protozoan infection with formalin and methylene blue. And THAT... that came in on the danged fish.
Todd
However, if you want to take the closed ecosystem into the next level, you can try some oligochaetes. Others have suggested seeding with blackworms and seeing where that goes. Also, cobicula and pea clams do very well if there's enough fish poop going about. The corbicula will be the better of the two as a bioturbator, but they'll both add some ecosystem function to the system.
Me, I've always enjoyed having things fly off. I kind of go for the "seed it and see what happens" model. I found a large dobsonfly larvae about a month ago that had to have been in there for at least a year. I fear he's bit it though, as I had to finally break down and treat a reocurring protozoan infection with formalin and methylene blue. And THAT... that came in on the danged fish.
Todd
#4
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Posted 04 September 2007 - 11:45 PM
Here is my current tank in progress. Sorry for the dark picture.
The substrate is a couple inches of sand with assorted rock piles.
Heres one of the crayfish peering out from under his rock.
The plastic pipe glued to the bottom was originally intended so I could place lights under the tank and they would shine up at night. Im pretty sure those pipes are full of sand now, but I might clean them out once im all set up.
Currently I have no filter other than the intakes for the powerheads. Im still working on a temporary mechanical undertank filter, which I will use until the budget allows a more complex DIY project. It will be nice to filter the surface of the water with an overflow as I seem to have a nice floating residue left after adding the sand.
The tank contains a few red shiners a couple rosies and the crayfish for cycling.
In a month or so, I plan to add some darters, madtoms, dace, and other small local creek fish. Eventually I may decide to house my shortnose gar here, although I will most likely build a tank since this one is only 18 inches front to back.
This tank was the cheapest large tank I could find a couple years ago, it was $220 new, and a big step up from my old 55 gallon.
The substrate is a couple inches of sand with assorted rock piles.
Heres one of the crayfish peering out from under his rock.
The plastic pipe glued to the bottom was originally intended so I could place lights under the tank and they would shine up at night. Im pretty sure those pipes are full of sand now, but I might clean them out once im all set up.
Currently I have no filter other than the intakes for the powerheads. Im still working on a temporary mechanical undertank filter, which I will use until the budget allows a more complex DIY project. It will be nice to filter the surface of the water with an overflow as I seem to have a nice floating residue left after adding the sand.
The tank contains a few red shiners a couple rosies and the crayfish for cycling.
In a month or so, I plan to add some darters, madtoms, dace, and other small local creek fish. Eventually I may decide to house my shortnose gar here, although I will most likely build a tank since this one is only 18 inches front to back.
This tank was the cheapest large tank I could find a couple years ago, it was $220 new, and a big step up from my old 55 gallon.
#5
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Posted 04 September 2007 - 11:58 PM
I guess theyre not completely full of sand yet. Heres a pic of a crayfish sitting in his tube with a flashlight under the tank.
#6
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Posted 05 September 2007 - 08:56 AM
i have a question about crayfish... do people have trouble with them eating fish/plants? I would like to have one or two but i'm afraid to put them in with other fish, especially darters, and i hear they obliterate all plant matter of any kind.
#7
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Posted 05 September 2007 - 09:14 AM
i have a question about crayfish... do people have trouble with them eating fish/plants? I would like to have one or two but i'm afraid to put them in with other fish, especially darters, and i hear they obliterate all plant matter of any kind.
I have limited experience with this. Crayfish in the past have been at the bottom of my aquarium food chain and are usually eaten by the fish or turtles Ive kept. Also it always seems that no matter how many crayfish you add to a tank, you will eventually end up with only one, because they tend to kill each other during and shortly after molts.
I havent kept darters previously so I am curious about this too.
I was hoping to keep this tank native, but if I start losing darters I may need to replace the crayfish with shrimp of some kind.
#8
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Posted 05 September 2007 - 12:11 PM
i have a question about crayfish... do people have trouble with them eating fish/plants? I would like to have one or two but i'm afraid to put them in with other fish, especially darters, and i hear they obliterate all plant matter of any kind.
Yes, they will obliterate any plants you have in the tank, and in pretty short order, too. They are also amazing escape artists, so make sure to have a tight-fitting lid. Somehow they manage to crawl up the outside of filter pipes/hosing.
I don't know how they would treat darters, but I wouldn't put any prized ones in with them.
#9
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Posted 05 September 2007 - 08:06 PM
Crayfish are opportunists, and if they're hungry, they'll eat your plants. I've had success with some of the genera that are prone to opportunism (Cambarus and Orconectes) with the saturation feeding model, but that's expensive, and isn't for everyone.
However, species in Procambarus and Fallicambarus seem much better behaved regardless.
The crayfish you have looks like O. rusticus, and I would remove him ASAP, as they are the Opportunists' opportunist.
Todd
However, species in Procambarus and Fallicambarus seem much better behaved regardless.
The crayfish you have looks like O. rusticus, and I would remove him ASAP, as they are the Opportunists' opportunist.
Todd
#10
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Posted 05 September 2007 - 09:05 PM
The crayfish you have looks like O. rusticus, and I would remove him ASAP, as they are the Opportunists' opportunist.
Well fortunately I have no plants yet, I just want something to stir up the sand, and these crayfish are all I have so far. Perhaps once I get my hood finised I will try some inverts that might potentially fly away eventually. Really what I should do is head down the creek and dig in the sand and see what I can come up with. Another thing, when I added the crayfish, I removed all their large claws so that if they did spar, they would each have the same chance. That slippery one fell in the tank and disappeared before I had a chance to get his second claw.
#11
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Posted 05 September 2007 - 09:45 PM
I have unfortunately had experience with this... crayfish eat crayfish, so you will end up with only one... that will make your crayfish bigger, and therefore hungrier... and it boild down to a simple fact... minnows sleep, and so do darters... this makes them too vulnerable for keeping with crayfish in my experience. I have woken up to see a dimy lit tank with a big crayfish sitting in the front of the tank holding half a shiner... Don't mix small fish and crays
i have a question about crayfish... do people have trouble with them eating fish/plants? I would like to have one or two but i'm afraid to put them in with other fish, especially darters, and i hear they obliterate all plant matter of any kind.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#12
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Posted 06 September 2007 - 12:08 AM
I have unfortunately had experience with this... crayfish eat crayfish, so you will end up with only one... that will make your crayfish bigger, and therefore hungrier... and it boild down to a simple fact... minnows sleep, and so do darters... this makes them too vulnerable for keeping with crayfish in my experience. I have woken up to see a dimy lit tank with a big crayfish sitting in the front of the tank holding half a shiner... Don't mix small fish and crays
Over the years I have tried crayfish and in my 125 I had 6 that got along reasonably well. They had room to get away from each other I figured. They do like to "trim" the plants at the roots, especially Vallisneria. They have also eaten some of the smaller Darters that I have in the tank. They seem to get them at night while they are resting. The crayfish will consume all the fish tho. The one thing that hasme perplexed is, I can collect them in the early spring, put them in the tank and watch them grow. Around the last of August, first of September they start to try to get out and will keep trying till they get out. I had one in a 70 gallon tank and he stayed all spring and summer with now problem. Come the first of September we caught him trying to get out and he finally did because we found him dried up at the other end of the house. Never could figure out why they always wanted to get out at this time.
Bill F.
#13
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Posted 06 September 2007 - 06:34 AM
Thanks everyone.
I was reading yesterday in a book on freshwater invertebrates at my college's library about how some crayfish dig burrows... an illustration made it seem like some of the burrows were out of the water. I think it said that some lay their eggs in these burrows. I wonder if this has to do with their seasonal desire to leave your tank.
I was reading yesterday in a book on freshwater invertebrates at my college's library about how some crayfish dig burrows... an illustration made it seem like some of the burrows were out of the water. I think it said that some lay their eggs in these burrows. I wonder if this has to do with their seasonal desire to leave your tank.
#14
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Posted 06 September 2007 - 08:01 AM
Thanks everyone.
I was reading yesterday in a book on freshwater invertebrates at my college's library about how some crayfish dig burrows... an illustration made it seem like some of the burrows were out of the water. I think it said that some lay their eggs in these burrows. I wonder if this has to do with their seasonal desire to leave your tank.
Their escape (as is their grazing on plants) is correlated with lack of food. Every time I've had one go awol on me, it's been right after a trip or busy period where I don't feed for a week or so.
The diagram you were looking at was that of one of the digger or chimney crayfish, which has a more illustrative life history than others that would normally burrow in substrates. These species have moved out on the land and use high water tables to support themselves. You'll see them in any area that has hydric soils.
And again Dan, you don't NEED to stir the sand.
Todd
#15
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Posted 06 September 2007 - 02:19 PM
You'll see them in any area that has hydric soils.
Such as my back yard. They're all over the place.
#16
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Posted 06 September 2007 - 04:02 PM
or the blue ones in old front yard I could get as many as I wanted after a rain by just walking with a bucket in my yard
Robert
I hope to get some next time I go up is there a reg on crayfish collecting in NC
Robert
I hope to get some next time I go up is there a reg on crayfish collecting in NC
#17
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Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:25 AM
i have a question about crayfish... do people have trouble with them eating fish/plants? I would like to have one or two but i'm afraid to put them in with other fish, especially darters, and i hear they obliterate all plant matter of any kind.
As far as I know the only safe crayfish to keep with plants or fish for that matter is the dwarf crayfish. They are too small to hurt the plants or fish.
#18
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Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:34 AM
I have limited experience with this. Crayfish in the past have been at the bottom of my aquarium food chain and are usually eaten by the fish or turtles Ive kept. Also it always seems that no matter how many crayfish you add to a tank, you will eventually end up with only one, because they tend to kill each other during and shortly after molts.
I havent kept darters previously so I am curious about this too.
I was hoping to keep this tank native, but if I start losing darters I may need to replace the crayfish with shrimp of some kind.
The dwarf crayfish don't seem to be as bad about eating each other as most crays are. On the other hand most fish bigger than a neon will eat the dwarf crays when they shed there exoskeliton. on the other hand shrimp are natives as well so you can have and still be 100% native.
#19
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Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:12 AM
I am in the process of setting up my 120 gal, and I have decided to use coarse sand. I understand I need some critters to stir it up, but I dont know what kind of critters these are. I caught some crayfish, but they dont seem to dig in the sand much, of course they may do it at night when the lights off. Ive heard people mention worms in the sand.
What kind of other critters or aquatic worms can I get that dont turn into flying insects?
-Thank you
The sad fact is that freshwater doesn't have as many sand "critters" as the ocean does. Most of the animals that live in freshwater sand are insect larvae that will eventually grow up and leave. I once found a couple of rather large earth worms in a stream when I turned over a rock . I put them in my tank and they lived for a long time. I'm not sure if they were some kind of odd species of earth worm or if earth worms can live in well aerated water. The MTS snails are very good at hiding in the sand I'm not sure if they stir it efectively or not. MTS are good because they stay hidden during the day. I agree with Todd the sand dosent need to be stired like most people recomend for marine tanks. I do how ever like to see as many inverts as possible in a fresh water tank so ghost shrimp and dwarf crays are about it unless you go for insects but most insects are very bad about eating small fish. If whishes were fishes I would love to have some of the dwarf spider crabs from New zealand or austrailia (Amarinus lacustris) They are the only true freshwater crab I know that will not crawl out of your tank or destroy every thing in sight. they are small and close in size to the dwarf crayfish but of course the are not native, or available either. They are endangered in new zealand but austrailia has lots of them and they are not in any danger there. I have trying to obtain several live speciems for years with no sucess. There is also a fresh water hermit crab that lives on the islands of Vanuto that would be a ggeat addition to the hobby if a few could be obtained and bred in captivity. Amarinus lacustris breds like crayfish , holding on to thier eggs on their underside untill they get big enough to be on their own (no larvae stage} Again they are not native but would be great to have in a tank.
. It seems that exporters only export what they think are colorful or really odd, I think that most exporter don't really know as much about what would sell as they think lots of really cool things get over looked, like the very diverse populations of fresh wateer crusteceans in south america. This is of course off the topic of natives but I like to keep odd things and I often mix fish from many diferent continents when I am setting up a display, it's just that one place seldom has as many interesting aquarium animals to choose from and I like lots of smal;l animals in large tanks. Amarinus lacustris breds like crayfish , holding on to thier eggs on their underside untill they get big enough to be on their own (no larvae stage} Again they are not native but would be great to have in a tank.
#20
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 08:26 AM
you don't NEED to stir the sand.
Its been a while since I decided not to have any sand critters, but if youve seen my collecting post, I have 2 white suckers and a golden redhorse who, although I dont need them to, do stir up the sand a bit. So do the central stonerollers, and just about every other fish when looking for leftovers on the bottom.
My fish also enjoy the game "hide the tubifex cube under a rock". The daces, stonerollers, madtoms and darters seem to really enjoy this one. But I think they are cheating, rather than sniffing out the food, they know that when I reach in the tank, there must be food under a rock somewhere. Sometimes I can fake them out on the outside of the tank just by pointing at big rocks.
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