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Innes Gambusia

Started by Guest_jamjam_* , Sep 09 2007 08:55 AM

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#1 Guest_jamjam_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:55 AM

OK. So no responses on the Albino Gambusia.

Does anyone know where I might get Innes Gambusia?

#2 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 03:27 PM

solid black Innes Gambusia?

I am not sure if we are talking about the same strain / hybrid. Over a year ago, I heard at the ALA Convention about gambusia with females that were half black. I was told the strain would be solid black in 6 months.

#3 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 04:54 PM

Is the "Innes Gambusia" a hobby name for the intergrade hybrids found in Alabama???

#4 Guest_jamjam_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 06:25 PM

solid black Innes Gambusia?

I am not sure if we are talking about the same strain / hybrid. Over a year ago, I heard at the ALA Convention about gambusia with females that were half black. I was told the strain would be solid black in 6 months.

These are hybrids of Affinis and the melanistic Eastern Gambusia (I think Holbrooki). In this strain both the males and females show the black spotted pattern.

#5 Guest_jamjam_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 06:26 PM

Is the "Innes Gambusia" a hobby name for the intergrade hybrids found in Alabama???

I'm not sure. Are these 'intergrade' hybrids between Affinis and melanistic Holbrooki?

#6 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 06:32 PM

That just sounds like a Southern Florida population of Hollbrooki...Both males and females will show such a pattern in certain localities.. Try contacting Armando Pou I do think he has collected such fish frequently on the tip of Florida.

I have to say I'm not sure why these are being called "Innes gambusia" though..Who started this???

#7 Guest_jamjam_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:04 PM

That just sounds like a Southern Florida population of Hollbrooki...Both males and females will show such a pattern in certain localities.. Try contacting Armando Pou I do think he has collected such fish frequently on the tip of Florida.

I have to say I'm not sure why these are being called "Innes gambusia" though..Who started this???

To my knowledge they are named after William Innes. The Innes Gambusia I believe are hybrids of Affinis and Holbrooki not pure Holbrooki.

#8 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:44 PM

To my knowledge they are named after William Innes. The Innes Gambusia I believe are hybrids of Affinis and Holbrooki not pure Holbrooki.

So this is a hobby developed strain I take it ??

The naturally occurring intergrade forms of G. affinis x G. holbrooki are not melanistic that I've ever seen..the population I had really just looked like a typical Gambusia affinis or holbrooki..the devil was in the detail of their gondopodium structure that showed the hybrid traits. Both Affinis and Holbrooki can show a black marbled appearance but this is rather rarely expressed outside of a few well know Florida Holbrooki populations that tend to breed true to this.

I'm not really trying to give you a hard time on this..I can honestly say I've never heard of any Innes Gambusia and I've been working with various populations of these fish for many years..This strain is obviously not well known to those working with the wild types of these fish and is obviously something new in use.

I personally would like to know more about this strain who fixed it and who named it..

I do understand it likely is named for the photo in exotic aquarium fish by W.T. Innes but it is a rather misleading name as all he shows is a standard Gambusia holbrooki as a type fish and even in his words he expressed that this is a trait of both affinis and holbrooki that can be expressed on a rare occasion. He goes on to state that coloration in the two fish is no more an indication of species than to say a Black sailfin Poecillia latipinna is it's own species.

This is kind of why I have to wink and wince thinking someone is calling these fish something that could be viewed as some new species in his name...It seems so wrong as he himself tried in his writing to disprove that black or marbled form was holbrooki and the others Affinis and did try to explain both where capable of such coloration and patterning.

#9 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:45 PM

From 2006 ALA

"GAMBUSIA POSTER PRESENTATION…by NELA’s own Michael Ronayne with some live specimens. Learn the controversy of Gambusia introductions and hybridizations, as well as acclimations to winter temperatures, here in New Jersey over the past century."

I think Michael Ronayne coined the term "Innes Gambusia". He crosses G. affinis with G. holbrooki, one was a cold tolerant invasive that was in NJ, IA?, and Chicago.

I have a photo of the poster somewhere.

Also found in a quick web search
http://www.fishforum...howtopic=211340
"Sep 8 2007, 08:41 PM
I found the Innes gambusia! They were free and the owner gave them to me. Also he gave some of his albino gambusia which they look stunning. Now I have lots of colors in gambusia tank. Grey, albino and melanistic. But no luck with golden gambusia....darn. "

#10 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 08:50 PM

From 2006 ALA

"GAMBUSIA POSTER PRESENTATION…by NELA’s own Michael Ronayne with some live specimens. Learn the controversy of Gambusia introductions and hybridizations, as well as acclimations to winter temperatures, here in New Jersey over the past century."

I think Michael Ronayne coined the term "Innes Gambusia".

I have a photo of the poster somewhere.

Also found in a quick web search
http://www.fishforum...howtopic=211340
"Sep 8 2007, 08:41 PM
I found the Innes gambusia! They were free and the owner gave them to me. Also he gave some of his albino gambusia which they look stunning. Now I have lots of colors in gambusia tank. Grey, albino and melanistic. But no luck with golden gambusia....darn. "

Figures...I have no clue... I missed the 2006 convention as it was a tad too expensive for me and I've not seen this used..I'll have to get a hold of Michael and have a chat with him to get what he was thinking...

#11 Guest_jamjam_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:09 PM

So this is a hobby developed strain I take it ??

Yes, I believe so. I think Michael Ronayne has fixed the strain so that it breeds true. I'm not sure about that though.
I emailed him a while back after he posted on the ALA forums about having some available but I never got a response.
I crossed G. Rhizophorae with melanistic Holbrooki and the result was that both male and female offspring of this
cross were spotted. They have yet to reproduce though so I don't know what to expect from the F2 hybrids.

#12 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:25 PM

The gambusia are getting colors lately because they are taming by us and selective breeding. They are just beginning. Albino gambusia existed and probably golden gambusia. Do you know the gambusia are first livebearer in the aquarium offer for sale before the guppy?
Also melanistic margrove gambusia existed.

#13 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:25 PM

I crossed G. Rhizophorae with melanistic Holbrooki and the result was that both male and female offspring of this
cross were spotted. They have yet to reproduce though so I don't know what to expect from the F2 hybrids.

Now that should be an interesting one...Given the mangroves rather nice demeanor for a gambusia I'd really be interested in how that works out if the fry are fertile. Keep in touch with me about that..This one is very interesting...

#14 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:38 PM

Also there are some debate about western (affinis) and eastern (holbrooki) are not subspecies but different species.

Yeah and that is not going to change anytime so either..despite my best judgment and what I'm told to accept I still do not think these are the same fish and separation is valid. It should however be noted Holbrooki is affinis as far as current taxonomic status is concerned...

I still have a hard time getting used to this...

#15 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:45 PM

From reading some of the material available on-line, the marbling/melanistic patterns come from holbrooki in which the males are heterogametic, and apparently the trick with the "Innes Gambusia" is to move that holbrooki Y chromosome into affinis, in which the females are heterogametic. By this line of evidence the melanistic trait is Y-linked, and Michael Ronayne has a hybrid line going that is 96.75% affinis but with the holbrooki Y chromosome. I still haven't found who named this strain after Innes, or exactly why, if such a why exists. So the long and short of all of the genetics here is that the Innes strain is a cultivar (to use the botanical term), hardly unique within commercially available livebearers.

#16 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:54 PM

I still really have to say that is a poor name to give to the strain or cultivar....Bill Innes must be turning in his grave ..

#17 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:58 PM

Innes gambusia are very striking especially with melanistic females. Notice that the melanistic eastern male cross with other gambusia species and you get melanisitc females, even in affinis crosses (which is different species not subspecies which I peresonally believe). Yet melanistic eastern male crossed with grey female of same species doesn't result into melanistic female, even that south florida populations, their too rare in nature.

#18 Guest_jamjam_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 10:12 PM

Now that should be an interesting one...Given the mangroves rather nice demeanor for a gambusia I'd really be interested in how that works out if the fry are fertile. Keep in touch with me about that..This one is very interesting...

I'll post my results (or lack thereof) here.

#19 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 10:13 PM

Brooklamprey, leave that name alone. I think its cool to name this special gambusia whenever you like it or not. Deal with it.

Also this strain are very hardy and easy to take care. I know the europeans kept Innes gambusia for aquarium trade. You should seen them! They are become popular aquarium fish there.

#20 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 09 September 2007 - 11:24 PM

Brooklamprey, leave that name alone. I think its cool to name this special gambusia whenever you like it or not. Deal with it.

Also this strain are very hardy and easy to take care. I know the europeans kept Innes gambusia for aquarium trade. You should seen them! They are become popular aquarium fish there.

I'm not sure who you are but I don't think so Butch...The name is not flying well and will be questioned..
Please never tell me to "deal with something" those are fightin words and your talking to someone that never backs away from a fight in some things...

I have already had these fish and they are Not "Innes gambusia" as described.. they where just Gambusia Holbrooki (G. affinis) from Florida...Not sure there was a need to mix them with western populations as the Florida population already bred true to being Melanistic in both sexes..I'm not so sure there is need for a special designation to this particular strain or type of fish...It has been known for decades already...