For those of you who have been stung by multiple species of bullheads and/or madtoms, which would you say was the most painful? Also, if you've been stung more than once by the same species, did you notice a change in your response to it between incidents?
I guess I'm interested because both myself and one of my collecting partners were stung by N. gyrinus yesterday, but our reactions to the venom were fairly different. When I was stung, it was quite painful for about 5 minutes, and then it grew more dull and achy and spread up my arm. The finger where I was poked was warm and swollen for a while as well. This lasted for about 1/2 hour, and then everything was fine. My collecting buddy, however, didn't experience the initial intense pain that I had, but the achiness lasted all afternoon. The area of the sting swelled up, and the injection site became a white bump. I know he's been stung multiple times before, so we're thinking that perhaps he's built up some sort of immune response to the venom.
Ictalurid Pain Index
Started by
Guest_Histrix_*
, Oct 04 2007 01:29 PM
21 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 04 October 2007 - 01:56 PM
Having had weak skin on my hands for years, I think I've experienced more different stings than most. I am sensitized to cnidarians and I'm sure the catfish are right behind them. I seriously need a bubble around me to confidently walk into the ocean. Fortunately, hydroids typically appear in heavily eutrophic areas in freshwater, and I'm okay to snorkel in lotic systems.
N. gyrinus (tadpole) is definately the worst in my repertoire of experience. I had similar response the 2 times I got hit that you had Kate, but with the added effect of nausea. This may have been due to my repeated exposure to the proteins of cnidarians.
N. leptacanthus (speckled) is right behind gyrinus. I introduced some new Yankee phraseology to the South when that happened. Phew.
N. eleutherus (mountain), miurus (brindled) and stigmosus (northern) all have fairly weak stings. It's 5 minutes of pain, no soreness, and much less intense than the former two.
N. flavus (stonecat) is pretty weak all together, much like a young bullhead or channel cat. Just kinda itches.
When I caught a N. munitus (frecklebelly) last winter... Boy, was I tempted just to say I was wounded by a Fed species.
While I've caught other species, I've avoided getting stung so far.
I hear that N. insignis (margined) is pretty intense. I wasn't about to ruin my day at the Convention this year to find out.
Todd
N. gyrinus (tadpole) is definately the worst in my repertoire of experience. I had similar response the 2 times I got hit that you had Kate, but with the added effect of nausea. This may have been due to my repeated exposure to the proteins of cnidarians.
N. leptacanthus (speckled) is right behind gyrinus. I introduced some new Yankee phraseology to the South when that happened. Phew.
N. eleutherus (mountain), miurus (brindled) and stigmosus (northern) all have fairly weak stings. It's 5 minutes of pain, no soreness, and much less intense than the former two.
N. flavus (stonecat) is pretty weak all together, much like a young bullhead or channel cat. Just kinda itches.
When I caught a N. munitus (frecklebelly) last winter... Boy, was I tempted just to say I was wounded by a Fed species.
While I've caught other species, I've avoided getting stung so far.
I hear that N. insignis (margined) is pretty intense. I wasn't about to ruin my day at the Convention this year to find out.
Todd
#3
Guest_sandtiger_*
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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:37 PM
I read that tadpoles have the worse sting, similer to a hornet. I have been stung by them a few times and I have to say that they at least hurt worse then a brown bullhead and I would compair it to a hornet in terms of pain but the paint did not last very long IME.
#4
Guest_hmt321_*
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Posted 04 October 2007 - 06:20 PM
I have been stung by my tadpole on the hand trying to get it out of a net, i would say that it is slightly worse for me than a wasp sting, or hornet. it seemed to ache for an hour or so, with slight swelling. about typical for a bee/wasp/hornet sting for me. but come to think of it i have never been stung by a wasp on the palm of the hand (finger actually), usually if i get hit by a wasp it is on the arm, neck or face (i almost always wear long pants when i am working outside, or hunting/fishing)
#6
Guest_ashtonmj_*
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Posted 06 October 2007 - 08:51 AM
My experience this year was that margined was worse than tadpole. Someone smal stung me up on the Clinch a year ago nand it was the worst pain of my life. I was pretty sure at the time when I got him while picking up shells that it was a yellowfin or pygmy because it definately wasn't a mountain. Dropped it so fast after he got me that I never got a great look. Mountains are pretty weak.
#7
Guest_bullhead_*
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Posted 06 October 2007 - 01:31 PM
Some Internet info, so take it with a grain of salt:
Planetcatfish.com states that tadpole madtom are among the most toxic. Planetcatfish also states that captive madtoms seem to have difficulty digesting earthworms.
Planetcatfish.com states that tadpole madtom are among the most toxic. Planetcatfish also states that captive madtoms seem to have difficulty digesting earthworms.
#8
Guest_Histrix_*
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Posted 08 October 2007 - 03:26 PM
Just to give you guys an update, my friend tested some N. gyrinus venom on some small largemouth bass this morning. All of them blanched out, started breathing rapidly, and keeled over. He's tested black bullhead, brown bullhead, and stonecat venom, and this tadpole madtom venom seems to have yielded the most extreme response by far.
#9
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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:57 PM
All of them blanched out, started breathing rapidly, and keeled over.
That almost sounds exactly like what happened to me (not the keeled over part). When just starting in the water messing with masses of vegetation I was jabbed in the thumb by a tadpole madtom which was under 1". The sensation was a throbbing pain almost as if a hammer was taken to my thumb. This pain traveled up to my elbow and to some degree to my shoulder. It turned to a burning/itching sensation which I found unpleasant. My heart rate raised and my breathing became uncomfortable. I honestly was a bit ashamed that a fish under 1" could effect me in such a way. This lasted for some time and at first I did not want to accept the fact that a tiny madtom could do this to me, but by the end I realized it's best to respect the venom hidden in them and simply handle them with more care. I recall being jabbed by bullheads in the past (yellow and possibly black) and can only recall a burning itching feeling that did not spread far from point of contact.
I'm glad to report that I've only been impaled by one madtom to date. Perhaps I learned my lesson. Oh! That madtom lived for quite a long time at home and became quite the bruiser.
#10
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 09 October 2007 - 06:17 AM
Thankfully, I must have a lessened response to tadpoles. I have been stuck 5 or so times by them. I remember the first time thinking that it hurt, but not exceptionally. It hurt the equivalent of being stung by a honeybee, with the pain lasting about 15 minutes total and no swelling or nausea. One thing that happens when I get stuck is it seems to bleed quite a bit from a very tiny hole. Maybe some of the toxin is being flushed out with this?
#13
Guest_FishandFire_*
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Posted 09 October 2007 - 03:16 PM
. My heart rate raised and my breathing became uncomfortable. I honestly was a bit ashamed that a fish under 1" could effect me in such a way.
Be careful of the allergic reaction. Some people will build a partial immunity the more times they are stung. Others the reaction will get worse. If it affected your respiratory and cardiac systems like this, you may want to talk to your Dr. and get him to prescribe an epi-pen for you. Better safe than sorry.
#17
Guest_bullhead_*
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Posted 11 October 2007 - 10:33 AM
I have never caught a madtom, so I have never been stung. Do they actually make an effort sting you? I always thought it was like catfish and bullheads, if you are careful how/where you grab them, you will have little to worry about.
#18
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 11 October 2007 - 11:42 AM
I have never caught a madtom, so I have never been stung. Do they actually make an effort sting you? I always thought it was like catfish and bullheads, if you are careful how/where you grab them, you will have little to worry about.
They don't actually "sting" you. You do have to get you with one of their spines either by your grabbing them or by their tossing. The most common way to get stung in my experience is to be digging through leaves or other detritus in a dipnet or seine and not see the little guys. I have grabbed them many times this way.
#19
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 11 October 2007 - 02:02 PM
I always end up getting hit pointing out features of the animal. And it usually involves showing something about the adipose fin. I think because I'm crossing the animal's anterior to point to its posterior. It flips, I move my right hand, and BAM. I haven't done it in awhile, so I guess there's been at least SOME learning involved lol.
Todd
Todd
#20
Guest_Histrix_*
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Posted 11 October 2007 - 08:42 PM
I have never caught a madtom, so I have never been stung. Do they actually make an effort sting you? I always thought it was like catfish and bullheads, if you are careful how/where you grab them, you will have little to worry about.
The madtoms we were catching had plenty of opportunities to sting us if they'd wanted to, but they didn't. In fact, the other person who was stung actually pressed his thumb into the spine just for the hell of it. I don't know why you'd want to experience that kind of pain again, but whatever makes you happy, I guess
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