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Recent Kentucky Trip

Started by Michael Wolfe , Nov 07 2007 05:40 PM

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#21 Guest_teleost_*

Guests

Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:21 PM

Uland, I'm impressed, you guys found both popeye and telescope shiners. Were they from the same place, or different streams?

Myself and others sampled three locations on the BSF (but others sampled more in subsequent days). We did find both Popeye and Telescope in one location. This location was seined more intensively than any other. It's possible they existed at the other locations and we were too busy drooling over the riffle fishes.

It might be blasphemous to say this but....I was more pleased to see the Popeye and the Telescope for the first time than I was to see the Bloodfins.

#22 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:41 PM

Man, I just realized Dave & Anna need popeyes for a NANFA grant [slapping forehead]. I am soooo sorry I forgot about that Dave!

We saw them co-occurring when I was in TN two weekends ago, I believe on the Collins. The similarities between the two still throw me in the field, I don't quickly think popeye. I guess one way to think of it is "a telescope that shed scales on you".

I hate Notropis.

Great pics as always Uland!! I really like the ashy darter.

This reminds me. Michael and I were talking about this then, and this is only an observation, not a criticism.

Those Notho darter pictures may be an example of what we're calling "Black Bucket Syndrome"

I really think a white bucket with gravel in the bottom is the way to go.

Todd

#23 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:55 PM

Agreed... a few bluebreasts found their way home with me, and they are consistently much lighter than the photo (and if I remember right they were also lighter in the stream). I also note from aquarium observation that individuals darken when hiding in the thick foliage, but lighten up quickly as they scrounge around for falling/fallen food. I only mention this becasue the picture is great, and the live fish with slightly lighter ground coloration are even more spectacular (more contrast between the body and the truly blue breast and more contrast with the red spots on the sides that really show up well even in a home awuarium ata roon temperature.

Those Notho darter pictures may be an example of what we're calling "Black Bucket Syndrome" I really think a white bucket with gravel in the bottom is the way to go.

Todd

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#24 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:56 PM

Those Notho darter pictures may be an example of what we're calling "Black Bucket Syndrome" icon_smile.gif I really think a white bucket with gravel in the bottom is the way to go.

Yeah, I was rather surprised when I took the first darters out of the bucket. The combination of black bucket, bright sunlight and white background did not go well together. Since we don't have any Nothonotus in the Mississippi basin (my home turf) I've not had enough experience photographing them. I've never had this problem with any other fish. I have beige buckets that I'll use in "Notho" country in the future.

#25 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:11 PM

I'm tellin' ya man... A little gravel in the bottom of a white bucket, and they look just like they did when they came out of the stream. I think people are apprehensive to do this because they think the rocks will fall on the fish or something. But after snorkelling with these dudes, you see how fluid their entire habitat is (water and substrate), and that they could really care less if rocks are flying at them. Granted, it's problematic when you have corners on the containers. But in rounded containers, it's totally not.

But people will do what they like

Todd

#26 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:34 PM

Man, I just realized Dave & Anna need popeyes for a NANFA grant [slapping forehead]. I am soooo sorry I forgot about that Dave!

It's OK. The last time I was out that way it was on short notice, so it was just the two of us dragging a large bag seine over, umm, "difficult substrates." We somehow managed to get one specimen out of the Duck, but it was buried in a ball of other cyprinids before we found it... it got preserved in EtOH.
Next time I'll put the call out for volunteers well in advance.

#27 Guest_teleost_*

Guests

Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:04 PM

I'm tellin' ya man... A little gravel in the bottom of a white bucket, and they look just like they did when they came out of the stream. I think people are apprehensive to do this because they think the rocks will fall on the fish or something. But after snorkelling with these dudes, you see how fluid their entire habitat is (water and substrate), and that they could really care less if rocks are flying at them. Granted, it's problematic when you have corners on the containers. But in rounded containers, it's totally not.

But people will do what they like

Todd

Have you tried white buckets with pale (indistinct Notrpois)? I've had real problems with anything other than a dark bucket with most minnows and most fish to be honest. Nothonotus are the only fish I've ever experienced uncharacteristic darkening in my pails. Not all of my sampling sites have nice smooth pebbles for the bottom of the bucket. I'm worried using light backgrounds and "stuff" from the bottom would incorporate debris and show on the background. Do you reuse the bucket substrate? I'm frightened that I'd pass something along. At least I can clorox and scrungy my pails with relative ease.

#28 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:56 PM

All the above. With the substrates, you can even close the cooler lid and come back the next day and tell who everyone is.

I use the same substrates indefinately, until they need bleached (like if I was in Zeeb positive waters during the growing season). And I don't mix this EVER with home aquaria. This is strictly a field bucket. If I have to use it with aquaria, I bleach it. I'm very careful about cross contamination from home to the wild.

Same with my coolers. When I lost my mind and collected from drying pools due to drought and brought something nasty home, I sifted out the gravel, dumped the sand, and bleached the gravel and coolers.

Typically, though, if you're using your head about when to capture fishes for any amount of holding time, you're not going to transport disease with the containers. If you're worried about this... Think about what you're transporting with your waders and boots. That's going a little too far, like blowing your head off to stop this ecological cataclysm humans are causing

I do use the same substrate in my photo tanks in the field and at home. But I always bleach inbetween uses.

Todd

#29 Guest_ashtonmj_*

Guests

Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:19 PM

Which is why I have the joy of spending almost an hour after every day in the field soaking everything that was in the water in 10% bleach! Including spray and rinse and switch out of all nets when we jump between streams. Hooray...

Felt especially sucks up everything and keeps critters nice and moist.

#30 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 29 January 2008 - 10:53 AM

Just in case YOU happen to hit a squirrel while looking for arrow darter...

http://query.nytimes...750C0A96F958260

Todd

#31 Guest_nativeplanter_*

Guests

Posted 29 January 2008 - 12:35 PM

Now, now... squirrel makes a mighty fine stew!

Just in case YOU happen to hit a squirrel while looking for arrow darter...

http://query.nytimes...750C0A96F958260

Todd

#32 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:35 PM

I know this is an old thread, but I have an update of sorts... it seems that a few bluebreast darters made their way home with me and have been in the 75 gallon tank in my house. While taking a few pictures of my Bluehead Chub (different thread, but also now my avatar), the bluebreasts showed their personality and curiosity and ended up providing me with a few good photos... what great aquarium fish!

Etheostoma camurum Bluebreast Darter

Not sure is all of these are the same fish, they were all milling about trying to see what I was doing, and wondering if it was going to result in food. I took mostly photos of males, but there are several.

And finally I got a photo of one of the females with one of the males... not a great photo, but nice to have them both in the photo together.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#33 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:31 PM

Vahry nice-ah! They're one of my favorite fish, I'm so glad they're beginning to come off of the state lists. They really make field work enjoyable and are a FIESTY addition to any aquarium

Here's a couple photos I ran across looking for bluehead chub that I forgot about. I thought people familiar with "bluebreast" from TN and VA should see these (this is what happens when you don't have any other Nothonotus conspecific beside E. tippecanoe). These are from Paint Creek in Ohio, from a VERY long day spent with list members Marc Kibbey (AmiaCalva) and Ben Keck. Totally made the stories from the end of the day worth it!

Todd

#34 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:00 PM

Hey Todd, remember we talked about "black bucket" syndrome with these guys? Well looking at your photos, and then looking at my photos (and fish) over a lightcolored substrate, it is easy to see that these guys can manage to match the substrate as they please.

I recently saw another example of this when I cleaned a tank in the basement and the tourquoise darters chagned from a dark color to a light color in a matter of minutes to blend in with the lighter, turned over rocks and substrate.

Never ceases to amaze me the color variation with these fish... an not between individuals... between the same individual on different substrates.

By the way, some of the bluebreasts (AKA whatcha gonna feedme darters) in my tank are nearly getting that big!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin