Darter From Spring Creek Oklahoma

This fish (male?) along with 3 others were collected from Spring Creek in North Eastern Oklahoma. The Creek is a spring fed Ozark creek and is pristinely clear with lots of aquatic plants and fish. Currently working on putting together a tank exactly replicating this creek...However, 1s I suppose I need to know what kind of darter this is:



The other 3 specimens collected were similiar in markings, but no where near the color. I am guessing my other fish are females. Higher quality pics to come as the fish get settled into their new home.

Looks vaguely like a gulf darter. You should probably get your fish I.D.'ed and then go collect them, as that could very well be a protected species. There are several protected darters.

It could also be a mud, orangethroat, or redfin darter. Really need a better pic and a good pic of the anal fin.

Looks vaguely like a gulf darter. You should probably get your fish I.D.'ed and then go collect them, as that could very well be a protected species.

Well, I've already talked to the two game wardens in two of the 3 counties where Spring Creek flows and they do not care if I collect for my own personal collection. I have been told that they will not enforce unless I try to sell or trade the few fish I plan on collecting. I have thoroughly reviewed Oklahoma's fishing regulations and I have my lifetime fishing permit. I'll cull a few(read, as many as I can shoot) asian carp to make up for the few darters, crayfish, plants, killi's and hopefully madtoms that I do collect. I have permission to do my collecting, so even if I end up with a protected species it should not be an issue as I am keeping them for personal study and education. Worst case scenario, I will donate them to the Oklahoma Aquarium in Jenks along with my collection data.

...oh...and sadly Oklahoma Game Wardens don't seem to know crap about any non-sport fish in their water...They were really clueless at first when I called them...perhaps they are too busy with muzzle loader and soon to be cartridge gun season for dear...

...and I'll try to get some better pics ASAP...

That's an orangethroat darter. The orangethroats from the Talequah area look a little different than those from southern and central Oklahoma but that's what it is. I love Spring Creek, BTW. It's got to be the clearest water in the state and there are several cool species in it. None of them are technically protected, but you might want to stay away from Arkansas darters because they are a federal candidate for Threatened.

I have permission to do my collecting, so even if I end up with a protected species it should not be an issue as I am keeping them for personal study and education. Worst case scenario, I will donate them to the Oklahoma Aquarium in Jenks along with my collection data.

It's still unethical, and probably illegal regardless of what a few game wardens say.

http://www.nanfa.org/mission.shtml

I'll second that it is an orangethroat darter or one of the species that have been split off from orangethroat darters. There are actualy a couple others in your area, if you could give me what major drainage spring creek is in I could look up if it is an orangethroat or a newly described species.

Great write-up tglassburner.

I'll second that it is an orangethroat darter or one of the species that have been split off from orangethroat darters. There are actualy a couple others in your area, if you could give me what major drainage spring creek is in I could look up if it is an orangethroat or a newly described species.

It's in the Neosho drainage, part of the Arkansas drainage.

Great write-up tglassburner.

I guess the mods didn't like it and deleted it. I guess that if I say something is unethical or illegal it gets deleted.

Thanks fishlvr.

I guess the mods didn't like it and deleted it. I guess that if I say something is unethical or illegal it gets deleted.

Sorry about that Tom, but there was way too much copy and paste text when a link would have sufficed. I just needed a minute or two to insert the link.

Sorry about that Tom, but there was way too much copy and paste text when a link would have sufficed. I just needed a minute or two to insert the link.

It's ok. I'm sorry too.

It's still unethical, and probably illegal regardless of what a few game wardens say.

http://www.nanfa.org/mission.shtml

So is having a large carbon footprint...but people tell us to balance it out with "carbon credits"

I'll balance my "collecting footprint" out with some "Asian carp credits" ...carp eat darters...I'll kill a few dozen invasive carp for every fish I collect. Now don't talk to me about ethics, I'm trying to be as ethical as possible and go through my local fisheries biologists and fish and game agency. Again...worst case scenario is that a public aquarium gets them and all my collection data. ^_^

So is having a large carbon footprint...but people tell us to balance it out with "carbon credits"

I'll balance my "collecting footprint" out with some "Asian carp credits" ...carp eat darters...I'll kill a few dozen invasive carp for every fish I collect. Now don't talk to me about ethics, I'm trying to be as ethical as possible and go through my local fisheries biologists and fish and game agency. Again...worst case scenario is that a public aquarium gets them and all my collection data. ^_^

True, but protected species are protected for a reason, regardless of where they end up.

Well there are actually 2 in that area one of which there is no location for it's occurance given in the latest addition of the AFS book Etheostoma uniporum. I gotta go for today but feel free to look that up and see if you can find a range for it. The other is in the Strawberry River Drainage and is called E. fragi. Those look like they are the only two new forms in your area so far, but who knows it could change again.

Well there are actually 2 in that area one of which there is no location for it's occurance given in the latest addition of the AFS book Etheostoma uniporum. I gotta go for today but feel free to look that up and see if you can find a range for it. The other is in the Strawberry River Drainage and is called E. fragi. Those look like they are the only two new forms in your area so far, but who knows it could change again.

What is the "AFS book"?

True, but protected species are protected for a reason, regardless of where they end up.

Exactly what I was going to say. You beat me to it. If the fish are protected, why make a bad situation worse by taking more from their habitat?

Well there are actually 2 in that area one of which there is no location for it's occurance given in the latest addition of the AFS book Etheostoma uniporum. I gotta go for today but feel free to look that up and see if you can find a range for it. The other is in the Strawberry River Drainage and is called E. fragi. Those look like they are the only two new forms in your area so far, but who knows it could change again.

E. uniporum is from the Black River drainage in Missouri I think. As far as I know none of the orangethroats in OK have been split, which is based off of the list that the Oklahoma chapter of AFS keeps on their website. I'm sure some eventually will move around, though, because there are many visible differences between populations in the state.

Thank you to the people who helped me ID (or at least narrow down the possibilities) this fish. I'm not an expert on Darters and I had no idea what the "pretty fishy" my wife caught was... I couldn't have told you a "darter" from a freshwater goby... I was not even aware that there were protected "darters" in my state until I already had the fish in my collection and was on the internet trying to figure out what it was.

Yah Know...Getting jumped about ethics on the very 1st reply to my very 1st post is not exactly a "warm welcome"...you don't know me from adam...and don't have a clue what my values or morals are.

For those of you who are familiar with the American Paddlefish/Spoonbill-and the Neosho-Grand-Hudson-Gibson chain of reservoirs you might find it interesting that I'm the one down at the low water dam below Kerr Dam taking pics of the liscense plates of people with more than one spoonbill during spawning season. I then turn that information and pics over to the local game warden. I literally am risking my life (I carry my pistol with me) because there are some crazy redneck poachers down there when the Paddlefish Spawn...

I catch and release black bass, I don't snag for spoonbill, I respect catch and size limits. I also have paid my $200+ for my lifetime fishing liscense in Oklahoma.

So get off your high horse(s) about 4 lil fishies my wife collected out of a pretty stream. Way to welcome someone...

Exactly what I was going to say. You beat me to it. If the fish are protected, why make a bad situation worse by taking more from their habitat?

Well...considering I know more about keeping fish than the average joe, and I had never heard of these protected species...I would say the number 1 thing someone could do would be to educate the public about what needed protection in their own back yards.

The amount of people I can and will educate about a protected species that I might accidentally (and this is friggen hypothetical at this point 'cus it doesn't look like I have a protected species) collect would help to improve the situation more than the removal of a very few collected fish...

And if you don't like that...you can KMRIA and meet me down at the low water dam come Spoonbill spawning time.

Its ok! I will assure you that everyone here is just looking out for the native fish species. Trust me, when I started getting into natives (on aquatic predators) i was yelled at for not knowing how bad releasing a fish back into the wild was. I was suprised and listened to what everyone told me. Do not think that everyone is accusing you of something they just want to make sure that our beautiful natives are protected. Don't worry nothing against you! Just some advice for the future... know the species of concern or protected species in your area. Also, a good book or feild guide will help with identification immediatly after capture. Welcome to the forum and I'm sure you will enjoy the world of native fish!