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Tn The Really Central Part

Started by Guest_killier_* , Nov 21 2007 07:26 PM

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17 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 07:26 PM

Well just got back from a nice collecting trip near my reatives home here in rainy watertown TN(outside of Nashville)
found
Redline darters
Rainbow darters
TN snubnoses
Roseyface shiners
central Longears
monsquito fish (is this eastern or western?)
Commmon carp(cought a good 8 pounder with my dipnet!!!)
and a few others I'm forgeting ;-)

Also more of a question to farmertodd what is one of the more unsual traits to id ashy darters my field quide is at a loss to that species

#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 07:36 PM

They look unlike any other darter. The pictures Todd showed in the thread from last week, and he and I have of specimens from 2006 show that well. Their pattern and body shape (mouth especially) are very unique. They are invasive mosquitofish regardless of the species, but likely eastern, and wreaking havic in Tennessee. Those are the cumberland snubnose darter (atripinne) not the tennessee snubnose darter too.

#3 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:34 PM

There are no other darters that have that snout / mouth. It's really incredibly different.

These are extremely hard to capture fish that are found in extremely hard to work habitat that you have to have foreknowledge of, and a netting technique that works exactly with the situation. Chances are most likely that you didn't catch one.

There's a pic of a huge male in the Quick Trip TN thread, and Uland just post a great pic of a juvenile in the Kentucky thread.

Todd

#4 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:40 PM

cool well I am not but 20 miles from the cumberland.... what else am I suposed to be finding here I was planing on going to go save some mudpuppys from the fishermen tomorow but besides that what would be cool to find?

btw I found some sooty darters would it be ok to catch photo release? I know they are only native to here in wilson county so I was wondering about that

#5 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:10 PM

Where are you getting your info from? Sooty's are found two watersheds and 6 counties in TN. While they are locally common they are also "In need of Management".

#6 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:27 PM

huh thats odd I was sure that they were only found in this area...
oh well I guess photos are ok then.

#7 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:33 PM

Is Etheostoma atripinne considered to be a species rather than a population within another snubnose species? I have the paper by Ray Bouchard describing the species from the 1980s but I've never gotten a clear handle on the consensus of its status.

#8 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:37 PM

lets cross our fingers that I can keep a few :grin:

#9 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 10:19 PM

Is Etheostoma atripinne considered to be a species rather than a population within another snubnose species? I have the paper by Ray Bouchard describing the species from the 1980s but I've never gotten a clear handle on the consensus of its status.

E. atripinne is valid, albeit in slightly restricted form.

Steve Powers just finished a very comprehensive revision of the snubnose darters of the Tennessee and Cumberland drainages (attached). We'd be lucky if a quarter of the recent systematic work was as thorough as his stuff.

Enjoy.

Attached Files

Powers___Mayden_2007.pdf 1.6MB 70 downloads

#10 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:12 PM

Hey thanks for posting that Dave!

Tyler is gonna be pissed he paid $20 for this at SFC. Bernie was hawkin' them. Although it did have a nice guide to the mussels of the Mobile. I assume this is what Michael Gangloff was talking about on Unio the other day too. Still, I better not razz Tyler too much, so I can get a photocopy

lol

Todd

#11 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:40 AM

Sucks for him....not like he sent me a wedding present though the bastard.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh soooo many splits! What is in the Roaring River then, atripinne or orientale??? It's right between the two distributions and blank. I'm kinda suprised stuff in the lower TN is the same as the middle. What I was finding in the lower Paint Rock River (AL) looked very different than say around Knoxville. Hmmm the Holston is simoterum and then (the New?) that population in VA too?!?! HUH! Thanks for the paper Dave.

I find splitting to be really confounding and probably frustrating for mussel host identification. All these studies and now the host could be something "different". If a mussel were to be across the range of multipe "new" species and the assumption was made that all of previous species X served as a host but it was only tested from one drainage it really now requires those "new" species to be tested for host suitablity. The more I think about possible situations where this is relevant the more come to mind too.

#12 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:34 PM

went to a few more creeks this morning and found
rainbow darters
fantail darters
sooty darters
cumberland snubnose
blackstripe(spot???) topminnows
Studfish(northern or southern?)
mystery shiners 2 different species
and
a madtom

well that rounds up another great day here in the really central part of TN :lol:

#13 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 05:02 PM

Any studfish from middle Tennessee is guaranteed to be a northern, Fundulus catenatus. The southern, F. stellifer, exists to the south of the Tennessee drainage.

#14 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 06:27 PM

Northern that great some more genes to add to my stock. and what about the topminnows are they spotted or stripe

#15 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:23 PM

Sight unseen, it's hard to know, it could be either F. olivaceus or F. notatus. The former usually has more spots and is smaller, the latter usually has less and can be larger. If you post a picture Martin and I can argue about it.

#16 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:46 PM

sure why not let get back to SC first though so I think I'll post pics on Sunday

#17 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 08:41 PM

add banded sculpin
white suckers
slenderhead darter
stripetail darter
fringed darter

#18 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 10:45 AM

If you post a picture Martin and I can argue about it.

Now, why would I argue with a guy named Fundulus, about Fundulus?

Besides, they WERE olivaceous!

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