Hi all. Once again, I'm messing with my big show tank to try to make it look presentable. (Probably a losing proposition, since I'm what you call artistically challenged, but I'm not ready to quit yet.)
What's the best kind of sand to use? I was thinking about playsand, but I've heard that it takes forever for the water to clear? Some have mentioned a coarser aquarium sand, or an aquarium sand that has calcium carbonate in it.
How deep should the sand bed be? I've been advised to keep it really shallow, to avoid pockets of trapped gasses, which directly contradicts Todd's live sand bed article. Anyone have any experience they could relate?
For decorations, I'm planning a couple of rock walls, and a bed of Potomac River Val. It grows fast and tall, and keeps the tank clean. The tank is a 65 gallon high, so it really needs tall plants.
Over in the invert section, I've asked for a candidate invert species to live in the gravel and keep it churned. (I've ruled out California blackworms and Maylasian Trumpet snails.) Does anyone have any other ideas?
Thanks.
Bob
Live Sand Tank?
Started by
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, Nov 24 2007 08:04 AM
44 replies to this topic
#2
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 24 November 2007 - 07:55 PM
Hey Bob... I've been having good luck with a Diane Walstead experiement... I used a couple of shovels of dirt from my backyard (mostly red Georgia Clay) to make a rather deep substrate... added lots of plants, and a really undersized hang on the back filter that I only ran until the water cleared (several days... maybe a week). I would recommend it.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#3
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Posted 24 November 2007 - 08:04 PM
(mostly red Georgia Clay)
I know how that is. Almost impossible to grow plants.
I've thought about using the Walstead method for a bluespotted sunfish tank or maybe some killies or pygmy sunfish. I have a 10 gallon that I thought about doing it with, and having some protruding plants that came out the top of the tank to give it a natural look.
#4
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 24 November 2007 - 08:10 PM
I know its hard to grow things in as far as the yeard goes... but it seems to be working rather well in the aquarium... I would try it!
I know how that is. Almost impossible to grow plants.
I've thought about using the Walstead method for a bluespotted sunfish tank or maybe some killies or pygmy sunfish. I have a 10 gallon that I thought about doing it with, and having some protruding plants that came out the top of the tank to give it a natural look.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#5
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Posted 24 November 2007 - 08:12 PM
I know its hard to grow things in as far as the yeard goes... but it seems to be working rather well in the aquarium... I would try it!
That's interesting to know... maybe Georgia red clay isn't so bad after all. Do you think it would work for the species I'm thinking of putting in the tank? Does it soften up in water?
#6
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Posted 25 November 2007 - 07:42 AM
Wow, you guys are hard core! How long does the water take to clear? The tank I have in mind won't be primarily a planted tank, but will just have some Valisneria in it in the back. I'm thinking red clay wouldn't be so good for a tank with some open spaces, no?
I also read that swimming pool sand works well for an aquarium. I'm trying to find a supplier in my area. The best I've found on the Web is something called zeosand, which, I guess is an ammonium absorbing resin, like the zeolite they sell for aquarium filters.
I also read that swimming pool sand works well for an aquarium. I'm trying to find a supplier in my area. The best I've found on the Web is something called zeosand, which, I guess is an ammonium absorbing resin, like the zeolite they sell for aquarium filters.
That's interesting to know... maybe Georgia red clay isn't so bad after all. Do you think it would work for the species I'm thinking of putting in the tank? Does it soften up in water?
#7
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 25 November 2007 - 05:34 PM
Well, Bob, if you are going to leave some open spaces, I might go with the playground sand... it clears in the water column in just a few days as long as you are running a little bit of a filter. Regardless if you are going to keep some area open, then I would cover the substrate with gravel or something... mostly just to keep the fish from digging in it and stirring up the substrate.
Wow, you guys are hard core! How long does the water take to clear? The tank I have in mind won't be primarily a planted tank, but will just have some Valisneria in it in the back. I'm thinking red clay wouldn't be so good for a tank with some open spaces, no?
I also read that swimming pool sand works well for an aquarium. I'm trying to find a supplier in my area. The best I've found on the Web is something called zeosand, which, I guess is an ammonium absorbing resin, like the zeolite they sell for aquarium filters.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#8
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Posted 25 November 2007 - 08:29 PM
Not to derail or anything but I bet if the clay is more effective than ordinary soil it's because the red is from iron... which is (as I'm sure you plant people are aware) used as a fertilizer in planted tanks with extreme frequency. I feel like Walstad said something about this in her book.
#9
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Posted 26 November 2007 - 10:26 AM
in my native tank at the moment, for the substrate layer i have mixed play sand and seachem's fluorite, and i mixed them equally, half is play sand and half is fluorite. my substrate layer is about 4" all the way around, but if you don't like the look of it you can always slope it towards the back, start the front at about 1" and work up a gradual slop to 4" in the very back. as for gravel cleaners, even though they don't count as one, i keep two small northern hogsuckers, they are constantly turning over gravel in search of food and in a sense "cleaning the gravel". i know a lot of people have had very promising results with the walstad method, its just one i have not tried yet, plus with my start of aquascaping in tropical tanks i tend to stay with a tropical like substrate for the plants to utilize. i use carbon dioxide and dose my plants with nutrients (iron, nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium) twice a week as well as a 50% weekly water change, using play sand can be dirty at first, mine took 2-3 days to clear out, it also created this so called film of dirt on the glass that i had to wipe off daily for the first week, but now its fine. good luck with your tank, and i can't wait to see pictures and so forth with your progress.
btw - i'm new to this forum, i have been registered for a few weeks, i just love reading some of the things you guys have to say, i just sit back and absorb all the information, i rarely open my mouth on here, thats why a lot of you probably have not noticed me, i plan on getting a nanfa membership here within the next week or so! anyways have a good one.
blake.
btw - i'm new to this forum, i have been registered for a few weeks, i just love reading some of the things you guys have to say, i just sit back and absorb all the information, i rarely open my mouth on here, thats why a lot of you probably have not noticed me, i plan on getting a nanfa membership here within the next week or so! anyways have a good one.
blake.
#10
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 26 November 2007 - 10:31 PM
Blake - I am encouraged by the fact that you plan to join NANFA. Just wait 'till you get your first copy of American Currents!
#11
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Posted 27 November 2007 - 05:42 AM
Just an update on the live sand tank. I found a link over on the cichlid forum that said a good medium to start with is the filter sand used for pool filters. It's pretty clean to begin with, and so doesn't need much rinsing. I wandered around Home Depot last night, trying to find some, but was unsuccessfull. I'll see if I can locate a pool supply store that has some.
I don't need a substrate with a lot of nutrients. The Potomac River Valisneria I raise does ok without it.
I don't need a substrate with a lot of nutrients. The Potomac River Valisneria I raise does ok without it.
Blake - I am encouraged by the fact that you plan to join NANFA. Just wait 'till you get your first copy of American Currents!
#12
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 27 November 2007 - 11:05 PM
Clean is over-rated... but I did a tank with a guy at work once and he bought the pool filter sand... very clean and just a little bigger than playsand... it worked out fine... but his plants got off to a slower start... the sand was too clean?
Dirt don't Hurt
Dirt don't Hurt
Just an update on the live sand tank. I found a link over on the cichlid forum that said a good medium to start with is the filter sand used for pool filters. It's pretty clean to begin with, and so doesn't need much rinsing. I wandered around Home Depot last night, trying to find some, but was unsuccessfull. I'll see if I can locate a pool supply store that has some.
I don't need a substrate with a lot of nutrients. The Potomac River Valisneria I raise does ok without it.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#13
Guest_Bob_*
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:13 PM
I'm growing the Val in bare gravel in food storage tubs in the 55 gallon. It's four feet tall without any dirt, CO2, or supplementary feedings, under Home Depot full spectrum T12s.
Clean is over-rated... but I did a tank with a guy at work once and he bought the pool filter sand... very clean and just a little bigger than playsand... it worked out fine... but his plants got off to a slower start... the sand was too clean?
Dirt don't Hurt
#14
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 03:56 PM
OK, the word "playsand" confuses me. If I buy playsand at ToysRUs, then it is very fine and very light gray, almost white. Super for the sandbox, but I cannot imagine it going in a fish tank. When I look at other various sources, I see tan playsand in various grades that can be much coarser, sometimes almost like fine gravel. Could someone elaborate?
#15
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 04:39 PM
OK, the word "playsand" confuses me. If I buy playsand at ToysRUs, then it is very fine and very light gray, almost white. Super for the sandbox, but I cannot imagine it going in a fish tank. When I look at other various sources, I see tan playsand in various grades that can be much coarser, sometimes almost like fine gravel. Could someone elaborate?
What is called playsand locally is also quite fine (small particle size). This works well in tanks provided to take into account the fact that large or active fish can easily suspend the sand and damage any power filtration equipment. I just set up a new tank and purchased hundreds of pounds of "torpedo" sand also called construction sand I believe. I passed this through window screen with water and let the fine sand collect. I then used the larger sand in the aquarium. Now I have tons of extra fine sand for future tanks.
#16
Guest_Bob_*
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 07:37 PM
Regarding sand and filters, I've read that if you place a sponge over the filter intake, you can keep the fine particles out.
What is called playsand locally is also quite fine (small particle size). This works well in tanks provided to take into account the fact that large or active fish can easily suspend the sand and damage any power filtration equipment. I just set up a new tank and purchased hundreds of pounds of "torpedo" sand also called construction sand I believe. I passed this through window screen with water and let the fine sand collect. I then used the larger sand in the aquarium. Now I have tons of extra fine sand for future tanks.
#17
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 08:46 AM
Regarding sand and filters, I've read that if you place a sponge over the filter intake, you can keep the fine particles out.
I use fine sand [wind sifted beach sand] in my saltwater tanks.
I can vouch both for the ability of a single grain of sand to ruin an impeller shaft and the use of a foam prefilter to keep the sand out.
I make the prefilter by purchasing the smallest size foam block sold for "hang on the back" type filters, cutting a slit and sliding it over the filter intake.
The only downside of using the prefilter is that, obviously, you reduce the ability of your filter to remove particulate matter. Instead of the larger capicity in your filter, you have only the little foam block which clogs fairly quickly. If you don't mind the expense and can diligently replace the prefilter, that won't matter much.
BTW, vering off topic a bit, if any of you keep saltwater and have problems with the dreaded purple slime, replace your calcium based coral sand with silica based beach sand. Something about the relationship between calcium and phosphorus makes coral sand purple slime fertilizer.
#18
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:55 AM
I recently set up a tank using the sand from Home Depot. I made the mistake of not rinsing it. Anything I did in the tank caused a cloud of fine silt that took days to settle out. I finally used a hot magnum with the pleated cartridge to remove the fine particles. It worked great. Each time the cloud disappeared I would stir the bottom and repeat until the cloud no longer appeared. I placed a layer of topsoil beneath the sand. The topsoil I purchased from WalMart contained a lot of woody debris. I found some topsoil at Lowes that is nothing but dirt. I purchased some "blasting" sand from a local abrasive supplier yesterday. It is extremely cheap ($5.00 per 100 lbs) and comes in 2 grades. It has been screened to seperate the finer particles. I am still going to rinse it but it is much cleaner than the home depot sand.
#19
Guest_Bob_*
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 12:25 PM
What kind of sand did you buy from Home Depot? Paving sand, or play sand? I'm thinking if I buy sand from a pool supply store, it will be relatively clean and free of silicates. (If the sand made the swimming pool cloudy or encouraged algae growth, then they probably couldn't sell much of it.)
I recently set up a tank using the sand from Home Depot. I made the mistake of not rinsing it. Anything I did in the tank caused a cloud of fine silt that took days to settle out. I finally used a hot magnum with the pleated cartridge to remove the fine particles. It worked great. Each time the cloud disappeared I would stir the bottom and repeat until the cloud no longer appeared. I placed a layer of topsoil beneath the sand. The topsoil I purchased from WalMart contained a lot of woody debris. I found some topsoil at Lowes that is nothing but dirt. I purchased some "blasting" sand from a local abrasive supplier yesterday. It is extremely cheap ($5.00 per 100 lbs) and comes in 2 grades. It has been screened to seperate the finer particles. I am still going to rinse it but it is much cleaner than the home depot sand.
#20
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 12:30 PM
If you are planning on keeping benthic fish, the pool filter sand will wash their colors out. This was the case with the sand blasting sand as well. Collecting darker sand from local waterways will probably be better for plants and will be aesthetically pleasing. The 3M color quartz is inert, so it won't really help the plants, but can be found in darker colors.
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