I have a pretty straight forward question. I want to set up a tank with a peat substrate and know it can and has been done. My only problem is I can not find peat at any stores, all I can find is peat moss. Are they the same? If not can peat moss be used as a substrate?? Thanks in Advance!!
Substrate woes
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, Nov 28 2007 07:09 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 07:12 PM
I would say yes they are the same.I have a pretty straight forward question. I want to set up a tank with a peat substrate and know it can and has been done. My only problem is I can not find peat at any stores, all I can find is peat moss. Are they the same? If not can peat moss be used as a substrate?? Thanks in Advance!!
#3
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 07:12 PM
I always thought they were the same. I remember reading about peat substrata that were several years old. Highly prized by killi keepers.
#4
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:01 PM
I assumed when people used peat as substrate, they used the same peat used for gardening. I use this stuff all of the time. It's dark brown and makes a "tea" when you add water. I've also seen the small bags of decorative stuff called "sphagnum peat moss" that is light in color (often green or very light brown). I guess if you want the peat to buffer your water, you would want the dark stuff.
#5
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:14 PM
Cool I will try it then...Thanks
#6
Guest_tglassburner_*
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:18 PM
Do your plants grow well in this?I assumed when people used peat as substrate, they used the same peat used for gardening. I use this stuff all of the time. It's dark brown and makes a "tea" when you add water. I've also seen the small bags of decorative stuff called "sphagnum peat moss" that is light in color (often green or very light brown). I guess if you want the peat to buffer your water, you would want the dark stuff.
#7
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:22 PM
Do your plants grow well in this?
I add some to my topsoil but my main use for peat is in the filter for water conditioning.
#8
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Posted 28 November 2007 - 09:26 PM
From here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat
"Peat is an accumulation of partially decayed vegetation matter. Peat forms in wetlands or peatlands, variously called bogs, moors, muskegs, pocosins, mires, and peat swamp forests."
From here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_moss
"Sphagnum is a genus of between 150-350 species of mosses commonly called peat moss, due to its prevalence in peat bogs. Members of this genus can hold large quantities of water inside their cells; some species can hold up to 20 times their dry weight in water, which is why peat moss is commonly sold as a soil amendment. Sphagnum and the peat formed from it do not decay readily because of the phenolic compounds embedded in the moss's cell walls. Peat moss can also acidify its surroundings by taking up cations such as calcium and magnesium and releasing hydrogen ions."
Follow those links to read more. But basically, no, they are not technically the same thing, although it is like debating whether Kleenex and Puffs are the same thing. For all intents and purposes, they are. Peat moss is the primary component of peat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat
"Peat is an accumulation of partially decayed vegetation matter. Peat forms in wetlands or peatlands, variously called bogs, moors, muskegs, pocosins, mires, and peat swamp forests."
From here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_moss
"Sphagnum is a genus of between 150-350 species of mosses commonly called peat moss, due to its prevalence in peat bogs. Members of this genus can hold large quantities of water inside their cells; some species can hold up to 20 times their dry weight in water, which is why peat moss is commonly sold as a soil amendment. Sphagnum and the peat formed from it do not decay readily because of the phenolic compounds embedded in the moss's cell walls. Peat moss can also acidify its surroundings by taking up cations such as calcium and magnesium and releasing hydrogen ions."
Follow those links to read more. But basically, no, they are not technically the same thing, although it is like debating whether Kleenex and Puffs are the same thing. For all intents and purposes, they are. Peat moss is the primary component of peat.
#9
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 07:16 AM
When I was incharge of enforcing county sediment & erosion control regulations I witnessed many wetlands removed for peat 
. There is a loop hole in federal wetland regs that allows them to do this.
. There is a loop hole in federal wetland regs that allows them to do this.
#10
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 03:51 PM
If you can, you want a bag of real "peat", the ancient, (effectively) non-renewable brown stuff. This is what the softwater tropical aquarists covet. "Peat moss" is freshly (more-or-less) harvested spagnum moss, that is equally as good for your garden, and probably equally as good for your aquarium. Just be aware that your water will color up, soften, and acidify.
#11
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 06:30 PM
If you can, you want a bag of real "peat", the ancient, (effectively) non-renewable brown stuff. This is what the softwater tropical aquarists covet. "Peat moss" is freshly (more-or-less) harvested spagnum moss, that is equally as good for your garden, and probably equally as good for your aquarium. Just be aware that your water will color up, soften, and acidify.
I just went out to the Agway store and bought a bag of peat moss for gardeners. It said "sphagnum" moss in small letters at the top of the bag but the material was fine, dark, dirt-like material with only a few strands of recognizable shagnum moss. I presume it is broken down moss harvested from under the living moss.
I put a good sized handful in my filter but can not see any change in color. Tomorrow I'll check pH to see if it had any effect.
Uland, does that sound like the material you use?
How much do you use per gallon?
#12
Guest_fishyguy_*
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 07:53 PM
I used this once for a planted tank and I had a horrible time with it. I may have not know what the heck I was doing but who knows. post some pics if you get it all set up I would be interested to see how it turns out.
#13
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 07:59 PM
If you can, you want a bag of real "peat", the ancient, (effectively) non-renewable brown stuff.
Where does one obtain this stuff?
#14
Guest_tglassburner_*
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 08:13 PM
From peat moss (home) depot! Silly martin.Where does one obtain this stuff?
#15
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Posted 29 November 2007 - 08:17 PM
Where does one obtain this stuff?
You can get it in pressed pellet form on eBay (look for "peat pellets"). When you add water they grow like those crystals in Superman Returns, but without shutting out the power in Metropolis or making Superman Jr. reach for his inhaler.
Once it's expanded you can do whatever you want with it. Put it in your filter, use it as substrate, etc.
#16
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Posted 30 November 2007 - 05:05 PM
I guess my question is whether the stuff at Home Depot is peat, or peat moss? I always thought it was the former, but can tell you for a fact it will turn the water brown.From peat moss (home) depot! Silly martin.
#17
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Posted 01 December 2007 - 08:46 AM
I guess my question is whether the stuff at Home Depot is peat, or peat moss? I always thought it was the former, but can tell you for a fact it will turn the water brown.
Seems to me, peat and peat moss are used interchangably and refers to the broken down, dirt like material that was once sphagnum moss.
Sphagnum moss, often sold for terrariums, is the green plant like material that becomes peat moss when it breaks down.
BTW, this thread prompted me to purchase some peat moss as water conditioner for a banded/bluespot sunnie swamp tank. I've had it in now for 48 hours and so far am quite pleased with the result. After a few more days and a few more pH readings and some pics, I plan a seperate thread on it.
#18
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Posted 02 December 2007 - 07:56 AM
As my basement tanks aren't for looks, I have often used an old panty-hose of my girlfriends and put some activated carbon in which is then hung over the side or back of the tank. One could do the same with peat, at least to experiment with water parameters. It could condition the water without getting all the floaters and mess of the peat in the tank until your sure you want to use it. Just at thought.
The peat that I've always gotton from home depot more closely resembled the peat I used to see in the Sacramento Delta. Huge blocks of this stuff would pop up from a couple flooded islands and float downstream. It was brown, powdery, with sticks and recognizable pieces of tule (giant rushes) and other organic matter still embedded in it.
As I recall from my field ecology class, the sphagnum moss does acidify the water by producing acidic nitrogen compounds. Don't know if it was nitrous or nitric acid or what? Something I've often contemplated is to include a "bog bin" in the central sump/overflow loop and pass the water through a large mat of live sphagnum. Just another stage in the filter basically. That way I could gain the water conditioning in several tanks without the mess of the peat in each one and grow some flytraps, sundews or pitcher plants.
The peat that I've always gotton from home depot more closely resembled the peat I used to see in the Sacramento Delta. Huge blocks of this stuff would pop up from a couple flooded islands and float downstream. It was brown, powdery, with sticks and recognizable pieces of tule (giant rushes) and other organic matter still embedded in it.
As I recall from my field ecology class, the sphagnum moss does acidify the water by producing acidic nitrogen compounds. Don't know if it was nitrous or nitric acid or what? Something I've often contemplated is to include a "bog bin" in the central sump/overflow loop and pass the water through a large mat of live sphagnum. Just another stage in the filter basically. That way I could gain the water conditioning in several tanks without the mess of the peat in each one and grow some flytraps, sundews or pitcher plants.
#19
Guest_mikez_*
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Posted 02 December 2007 - 10:01 AM
Something I've often contemplated is to include a "bog bin" in the central sump/overflow loop and pass the water through a large mat of live sphagnum. Just another stage in the filter basically. That way I could gain the water conditioning in several tanks without the mess of the peat in each one and grow some flytraps, sundews or pitcher plants.
Now there's a cool idea! I like it!
My Dad's an avid native plant freak [teaches classes on native plants for the state of Maine]. He's had some success with native Maine pitcher plants. I'll have to run that by him and see what he thinks.
#20
Guest_RichardA_*
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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:40 PM
If you do not need it for water conditioning, then use Coco-Fiber. Same result for sub, just a fully renewable resource. It does tend to break down a bit in some water, but it is not taking away from the peat bogs.
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