Native Cavefish

Just curious,
Are any of our native Cavefish legal to keep? If so, has anyone here attempted to collect & keep them?
-Thom

I have always been curious about those blind catfish that pop up out of 1200 foot deep wells in Texas. I wonder how easy it would be to obtain a live one? Breeding them would be a neat project.

I have always been curious about those blind catfish that pop up out of 1200 foot deep wells in Texas. I wonder how easy it would be to obtain a live one? Breeding them would be a neat project.

Southern cavefish aren't federally protected(to my knowledge). They are protected in Alabama. I've thought about going and looking for some for a breeding project. Mexican blind cave tetras are legal, and they're North American. The MCT's are supposed to be really prolific, although they just scatter their eggs like other tetras.

I personally think it would be somewhat unethical for most hobbyists to mess with a fish that has such specialized requirements, and is found in such a restricted environment. I would love to keep some, but I would not do so because I realize that I would most likely kill them, and nothing would be gained. I feel that these fish are better suited to institutions, and other research facilities.

Check into swampfish, very similar, less specialized, won't require a chiller.

What about Mexican cave tetras? I heard they're easy to keep.

What about Mexican cave tetras? I heard they're easy to keep.

WAY different fish.
I am certainly not speaking from experience when it comes to US cavefish. But since we are all about conservation first and foremost, it must be said that just because certain fish in certain areas may be legal to keep, it does not make it a good idea. Earlier this summer Uland and I found spring cave fish, It was very tempting, and they likely are easier to keep than any of the blind species. Both of us realized that if we took any we would probably kill them during the learning process. So what would have been gained, neither one of us was writing a research paper. To take them would have been selfish, and irresponsible. At least that was how I viewed it, and am sure Uland felt the same.
I am not trying to spank anyone here, merely saying that we really need to think before we take. Legal does not equal ethical, and vice versa.

Most US states have passed "cave laws", developed by the National Speleological Society and generally similar from state to state. Here's a few of your closest. Take-home message: don't take stuff out of caves. You might want to reconsider swampfish or spring cavefish.


Georgia
CHAPTER 43-25. CAVE PROTECTION ACT OF 1977 Section. 43-2501

This Chapter shall be known and may be cited as the "Cave Protection Act of 1977." (Acts 1977, p. 833, eff. July 1, 1977. Cross References Penalty for violation of Chapter, see 43-9916.)
...
Section 43-2507 Wildlife
It shall be unlawful to remove, kill, harm or disturb any wildlife found within any cave: Provided, however, that nothing contained in this Section shall be construed to repeal Section 32 of an Act completely and exhaustively, revising, superseding and consolidating laws of this State relative to game and fish, approved March 7, 1955 (Ga. Laws 1968, pp. 497, 515) [former 45-208], relating to scientific collectors' permits or any rules or regulations promulgated pursuant thereto or any Federal or State laws relating to the protection of certain plants or animals. (Acts 1977, pp. 833, 835, eff. July 1, 1977.) (Violation is a misdemeanor)


Kentucky

433.877 Unlawful removal or disturbance of naturally occurring organisms in cave.
(1) It shall be unlawful to remove, kill, harm, or otherwise disturb any naturally occurring organism found within any cave, except for safety or health reasons. Scientific collecting permits may be obtained from the state nongame biologist.
(2) It shall also be unlawful to collect any form of troglobitic or troglophilic cave life for commercial sale, whether or not a profit is gained by such sale.
Effective: July 15, 1988
History: Created 1988 Ky. Acts ch. 168, sec. 4, effective July 15, 1988.

Virginia

§ 10.1-1006. Disturbance of naturally occurring organisms; scientific collecting permits; penalties.
A. It shall be unlawful to remove, kill, harm, or otherwise disturb any naturally occurring organisms within any cave, except for safety or health reasons; however, scientific collecting permits may be obtained from the Department.
B. Any violation of this section shall be punished as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(1979, c. 252, § 10-150.15; 1988, c. 891.)


Tennessee
Section 11-5-108. Vandalism of caves or caverns.
(a) It is an offense for any person, without the prior permission of the owner, to knowingly:
(1) Break, break off, crack, carve upon, write or otherwise mark upon, or in any manner destroy, mutilate, injure, deface, mar or harm any natural material found within any cave or cavern, such as stalactites, stalagmites, helictites, anthodites, gypsum flowers or needles, flowstone, draperies, columns or other similar crystalline material formations;
(2) Kill, harm or disturb any plant, animal or artifact found therein;
(3) Disturb or alter the natural condition of such cave or cavern; or
(4) Break, force, tamper with, remove, or otherwise disturb a lock, gate, door or other structure or obstruction designed to prevent entrance to a cave or cavern, whether or not entrance is actually gained.
(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the owner of property from performing on such owner's property any of the acts set forth in subsection (a).
© An act constituting a violation of this section is to be valued according to the provisions of § 39-11-106(a)(36) and punished as theft under § 39-14-103. [Acts 1991, Ch. 62, § 1

NOTE: A Property Class A Misdemeanor is a fine of $500.00 and a theft is a Class E Felony with a fine from $ 500.00 to$1,000.00.

I maintained several spring cavefish (collected under a scientific collecting permit) for a while in a heavily java-moss planted 10g tank in a large refrigerated deli case, kept between 45-55F. They ate, pooped, and seemed perfectly healthy (grew and got chunky), but in the absence of a more natural temperature and photoperiod regime they did not reproduce. After 2+ years they slowly died off, one by one. Most of the time they were buried in vegetation. They were not particularly exciting aquarium fish, and I wouldn't do it again.

Ginny Adams, now at The University of Central Arkansas, has documented extensive migration of spring cavefish from their surface spring habitats into cave systems; reproduction occurs in the cave and larvae drift downstream to the surface. It's not something you're likely going to be able to reproduce in a home setting.

In contrast, swampfish are very abundant in the central portion of their range, and would likely be a much more rewarding species to maintain.

Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on keeping these things! I also don't encourage anyone to do so. I just wanted to know if any of you scientifical types here had done it. (Perhaps a breeding program?) I remember seeing Mexican Blind Cave Tetras in LFSs but I haven't seen them in years. I wonder if they have become illegal. Also, in regards to Swampfish, I never hear anyone keeping them either. Does anyone here keep them? If so, I'd love to hear about it.
-Thom

I was planing on checking into the laws before keeping them. I wasn't going to just go out there and start grabbing them up. I've already learned my lesson about that.

I've seen MCT's online for sale. I'll see if I can find the places they were being sold.

Here is a thread on swampfish:
http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=1263

Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on keeping these things! I also don't encourage anyone to do so. I just wanted to know if any of you scientifical types here had done it. (Perhaps a breeding program?) I remember seeing Mexican Blind Cave Tetras in LFSs but I haven't seen them in years. I wonder if they have become illegal. Also, in regards to Swampfish, I never hear anyone keeping them either. Does anyone here keep them? If so, I'd love to hear about it.
-Thom

Thom, your post did not read that you planned on keeping any, merely a curiosity. It did bring about a good discussion though.

I've seen MCT's online for sale. I'll see if I can find the places they were being sold.

Nothing wrong with MCTs. In contrast to many temperate cave organisms, in parts of Mexico and Central America they're so abundant that locals catch and eat them by the basketful, and even have festivals that celebrate the easy source of protein from cavefish...

Scientific work in caves increases the number of permits that are required by about an order of magnitude. It's very, very frustrating, and quite possibly counterproductive in terms of protecting biodiversity...

So does that means we can't keep blind catfishes in aquarium? That's allright, just want to know. What about cave mollies? I had no idea what they looks like. Its same species as shortfin mollies ( Poecilia mexicana). But I don't know if they are easy to breed in capitive.

Blind cave tetras are a pretty good representative of a cavefish...though they still look like tetras.

I have some blind cave pickerel - it's amazing how they can find their prey by sense of smell.