Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Breeder's Award Program

Started by Guest_viridari_* , Jan 03 2008 04:25 PM

Next

Reply to this topic

42 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_viridari_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 04:25 PM

The NANFA web site has a page describing a Breeder's Award Program, but I never really hear talk of it here on the forum or on the listserv. Is this still an active NANFA program? If so, where should I be looking for published updates?

Also, from the BAP page:

Be the first in the program to spawn and document the event and you will likely get a higher point value for that species than will future reports. As an incentive for breeders to work with little known species, the first spawning report submitted for any species which has not been previously reported to the NANFA BAP Committee will receive a point value one step higher than its listed point value. Once an initial report in submitted for a species, the BAP Committee will evaluate the report and determine whether the species is difficult to spawn or relatively easy, and assign the species an appropriate value for later reports. A list of species previously reported to the program will be maintained for breeders' reference.

Could someone please put a hyperlink in that last sentence to the reference list of reported species so that one might be better-equipped to decide which species are more important to work with?

EDIT: Additionally, the link provided to the report form is broken.

#2 Guest_drewish_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 04:56 PM

The BAP was never really successful from the start. It was a good idea, but there wasn't enough interest. I've exchanged a few emails back and forth with Bob regarding it. It has been brought up to integrate something into the forum, but that hasn't been a high priority.

I think it can be brought up to the new BoD to decide how we should move forward and I believe Bob agrees with this.

The real goal of the program was to document breeding procedures to make available to researchers. The certificate/award was designed to generate interest in this. If the BoD feels that this is the way to go, then I feel the the program needs a facelift with a new online form and database.

I don't know the story behind the old online form, but where the current website is hosted does not support ASP.

#3 Guest_viridari_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:29 PM

The BAP was never really successful from the start. It was a good idea, but there wasn't enough interest. I've exchanged a few emails back and forth with Bob regarding it. It has been brought up to integrate something into the forum, but that hasn't been a high priority.

I think the mission of the BAP is quite valid. The implementation plan could probably use a retooling, it sounds like.

I'm sure the forum could be leveraged to some extent for jump-starting the BAP but the forum alone is going to be an ill-fitting tool to handle the entirety of the BAP workload.

The real goal of the program was to document breeding procedures to make available to researchers. The certificate/award was designed to generate interest in this. If the BoD feels that this is the way to go, then I feel the the program needs a facelift with a new online form and database.

Ah but how to do this in an effective manner without a whole lot of custom software development? I don't have an answer to that; just raising the obvious question.

Again, the mission of the BAP is very important, IMHO. Clearly we've got the talent and experience in the membership to breed many of our native species in captivity. We just need to get better at recognizing those accomplishments, incentivizing new achievements, and publishing success reports for the benefit of all.

There are probably a couple of other areas of the web site, aside from BAP, that could use some BoD oversight. Probably not appropriate to point them out here.

I don't know the story behind the old online form, but where the current website is hosted does not support ASP.

Netcraft is stumped but I'm glad to see it's not Windows/IIS. :grin:

(Linux pays my mortgage so I subscribe to the Anything-But-Windows school of thought)

#4 Guest_drewish_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 05:59 PM

Yes, I believe there would need to be some custom work done to satisfy a fully online BAP. Any volunteers?

There are "Award" modifications for our forum software that we could implement in addition to physical awards or certificates.

For your concerns regarding the website, please email me with those.

#5 Guest_viridari_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 06:22 PM

I'm no code monkey (I am, however, a professional BOFH), but do on occasion have to make minor revisions to PHP software at ${WORK}. So I'll poke around a little and see if there is maybe someway to integrate a semi-functional BAP with the forum (since the forum seems to be a runaway favorite form of communication with NANFA, and so much of what would be needed is already there). I see there is developer documentation available, so I'll take a look at that and see if it is way over my head or not.

#6 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 06:49 PM

The code is available to anyone who wants to use it. I think you'd be silly to write the thing again. The only reason it's broken is because I quit paying $100 a year for an online SQL database after 2 years of zero submission.

I'd be more than glad to pass the files along of what is already done.

One thing I would suggest changing is breaking it into smaller chunks, so that someone has an ID already created, and they don't have to put all that crap in again.

Todd

#7 Guest_drewish_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 08:21 PM

I have the files Todd. It hasn't been operational since I joined NANFA so I never saw it in action and I don't have access to SQL to test it. I looked at it to see if I could convert it to utilize Apache::ASP but I don't want to mess with an operational server.

If someone has a SQL server that wants to play with it, let me know.

#8 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:38 PM

Okey dokey. Thanks for taking a look at it. And anyone who wants to play with it can knock themselves out with it

Todd

#9 Guest_drewish_*

Guests

Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:55 PM

So yeah... I've seen a few people mention that they do web design or hosting. So if anyone has IIS, SQL, etc, I can either do it myself or toss it your way.

#10 Guest_Mysteryman_*

Guests

Posted 04 January 2008 - 09:31 AM

I may be able to offer a simpler solution, maybe.

On the website I normally haunt, I built a fish profiles page. It is accessible from a link on the main page, but is otherwise out of the way. The profiles page is an ordinary message board page like this one, but all the threads are permanent & "sticky", each one devoted to one single species. They are arranged more or less taxonomically, so a user can easily find the species he wants if he knows what it is and thusly where to look.
Species information is posted according to a standardized format. After the first original post, others may come along and add more info to it.

This didn't work out as well as hoped, on account of a VERY annoying cookies error on the server which automatically logged out anyone switching between the profiles page and the main forum page. People just got fed up with it and quit using it, and I couldn't figure out how to fix it. HOWEVER, if Drew can prevent such a thing from happening, then this idea is otherwise a very workable one, as it's easy, needs no extra server, and no SQL database. It should also be a popular attraction to the NANFA forums.

Just an idea.

#11 Guest_uniseine_*

Guests

Posted 05 January 2008 - 10:51 PM

I'm no code monkey (I am, however, a professional BOFH), but do on occasion have to make minor revisions to PHP software at ${WORK}. So I'll poke around a little and see if there is maybe someway to integrate a semi-functional BAP with the forum (since the forum seems to be a runaway favorite form of communication with NANFA, and so much of what would be needed is already there). I see there is developer documentation available, so I'll take a look at that and see if it is way over my head or not.

"since the forum seems to be a runaway favorite form of communication with NANFA"

I strongly disagree. It is not possible to judge how many NANFA people don't use the Forum from a forum discussion.
Of the few NANFA member that I have regular contact with, two NANFA members have been to most of the conventions but don't use the forum.

#12 Guest_uniseine_*

Guests

Posted 05 January 2008 - 10:58 PM

I feel that the NANFA BAP form may scare off users because of the work required to complete the form. In 2007, I offered as a substitute my Easy BAP attempt.

see http://www.geocities...y/nanfabap.html
I can download the submissions with Outlook Express. My Excel program automatically calculates the points, allows manual changes and checks, and then converts the submission into a web page.

NANFA BOD and NANFA BAP Chair had no interest in using my program. I also learned that they had no plans to change the current NANFA BAP.

#13 Guest_viridari_*

Guests

Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:14 PM

NANFA BOD and NANFA BAP Chair had no interest in using my program. I also learned that they had no plans to change the current NANFA BAP.

We have an almost completely new BoD now which can provide a completely fresh outlook on the BAP and what can be done to revitalize it.

I started this thinking that technology would have the answers. But upon reflection, I was overthinking the solution. We just need someone actively doing the job. We don't need fancy software. A simplified form, and active administration. How it works behind-the-scenes is for the administrator of the BAP to worry about, as long as that person is producing results from the submissions sent to them.

#14 Guest_fundulus_*

Guests

Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:26 PM

All you need is people who are willing to submit their experiences in writing. That sounds flip, but it's true. At that rate, why not submit a short article to American Currents and get wider reading of what you've done? That's what successful breeders like Bob Muller and Ray Katula have done in the past, which may be prologue.

#15 Guest_AC-Editor_*

Guests

Posted 06 January 2008 - 12:11 AM

The reason the BAP program withered on the vine was because there was little interest in it. Despite all the Big Talk you guys make about breeding native fishes, virtually no one's doing it. I can count on one hand those who are breeding natives with any regularity. And they don't waste their time with BAP forms. They write articles and get them published.

I've always found it silly that so many native fishkeepers want access to T&E species so they can breed them in captivity and "keep the species alive." I remember this one guy calling me for Barrens Topminnow.

"Have you breed fundulids before?" I asked.

"Um, no."

"How about minnows?"

"No."

"Any darters?"

"No."

"So why should you be trusted with one the rarest killifishes in the country?"

Click.

Please. If you've had any success breeding natives (other than slam dunks such as Heterandria and Elassoma), then write it up. Don;t wait for a BAP form. Just write. I will carefully, lovingly edit it. Ghost write it for you, if necessary. And give it a nice, polished, professional presentation in American Currents.

At least for another year. <grin>

#16 Guest_teleost_*

Guests

Posted 06 January 2008 - 01:01 PM

I think Bruce and Chris summed it up. If you breed fish, jot your info on a napkin and I post your results if I have to...make a new subforum if needed. I'm sort of kidding here since I like the thought of breeding results being published in AC but I'll do anything to get the information out.

#17 Guest_Seedy_*

Guests

Posted 06 January 2008 - 07:32 PM

Alright... I just did a forum search for "darter + breed" and only came up with this thread. I assume many of the common darter species are being bred in captivity... Do we have any on line resources regarding the "how to" of breeding various species? Perhaps I needed to do a more specific search?

I think the only native I've ever successfully bred I Gambusia affinis...and that wasn't exactly difficult

Not to brag (but I'm gonna) I've bred some of the most sensitive and tricky African Cichlids out there and am hoping to be the second person to document breeding Haplotaxadon trifasciatus (an open water bi-parental mouthbrooder) in the aquarium. Semi-annual killi fish, Live Bearers of all kinds... With just a little bit of direction and the actual fish I am fairly sure I can handle all but the most difficult and specific native fishes.

I think the 1st thing to do would be to find all the threads on this forum that have reports of actual spawnings and successful breeding and group them into one folder/forum (or perhaps the already established folder based on the type of fish) and "Sticky" it so it is always "on top" of the forum.

#18 Guest_drewish_*

Guests

Posted 06 January 2008 - 07:44 PM

I've always looked here for information on breeding different species.

Like Chris said, there aren't many who do it on a consistent basis and those that do, write about it.

I've already seen on other forums what Chris is talking about... people wanting to breed T&E species without ever spawning those that aren't protected.

Bringing this to the forum will expose it to a larger audience but will people actually contribute?

#19 Guest_Seedy_*

Guests

Posted 06 January 2008 - 08:03 PM

Thank You for that link. There is a lot of good info there.

I have no desire to breed T&E species. But I would like to know how to breed the fish that I do have. I don't know that a separate folder would necessarily increase website traffic, however I think it would increase the overall usefulness and content of the forum. Perhaps it would bring those "key" NANFA members who don't normally visit the website into active website members.

#20 Guest_jdclarksc_*

Guests

Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:10 PM

Please. If you've had any success breeding natives (other than slam dunks such as Heterandria and Elassoma), then write it up. Don;t wait for a BAP form. Just write. I will carefully, lovingly edit it. Ghost write it for you, if necessary. And give it a nice, polished, professional presentation in American Currents.

At least for another year. <grin>

And I will gladly do the same once I take over for Chris in the next year.
Did I just say that? [-o<