And I will gladly do the same once I take over for Chris in the next year.
Did I just say that?

I know I would like to get more involved breeding native fish. This last summer I had success with the Dollar Sunfish from South Carolina and I have some Blacknose Dace from Indiana that are going through some pre-spawning rituals. Because I am not a writer, the thought of writing a 400 word article frightens the "Gambusia" out of me. I believe that was the size it recommended. Is there a possibility that size could be lowered to say 25 words or less?
The other item that was the form, seems like it wanted quite a bit of information. Also could the form be setup online so we could fill it out and then email to the BAP person? Either that or have the form as a database that onlyyou could edit, but everyone else could see what you did? You all know know more about this internet and computer stuff than I do.

Bill F.

I have never liked BAP programs. This is due to the fact that I have seen so many people get a fish just to spawn it once and turn in a few fry and never look back at them. I have maintained several sp. for more than 10 years and even with the those I learn something new all the time about their needs/habits/care. Not that I don't get new fish, but I also get new aquariums to stuff in the house. My preference would be articles written for publication from people with intrinsic knowledge and detail of the fish/method/idea ect. over BAP points/plaques/papers.

I have never liked BAP programs. This is due to the fact that I have seen so many people get a fish just to spawn it once and turn in a few fry and never look back at them. I have maintained several sp. for more than 10 years and even with the those I learn something new all the time about their needs/habits/care. Not that I don't get new fish, but I also get new aquariums to stuff in the house. My preference would be articles written for publication from people with intrinsic knowledge and detail of the fish/method/idea ect. over BAP points/plaques/papers.

Are you volunteering Sean? I know you have bred some great fish and have documented them well.

Bflowers, your post in this thread is 153 words. Can't be much harder to write 247 words more.

Andy

I have a couple papers written and have most of the photos I would like. Simply I just need to edit one more time and have someone else proof read.

I've contacted Bob Muller about this privately. Apparently he does not participate in the forum so he hasn't had a chance to join in this discussion. I'll try to get some sense from him about where he sees the BAP going and how he sees himself involved.

I talk to Bob quite often, I am sure if there is some one who would like to take it over. He would be more than willing to let them. I am not sure if it, the BAP program is really broken or not working. When it was first started there was a lot of activity at first, but then it slowed down. I think this is just the nature of the beast. The form we have has allot of info to fill out, so as we can get as much info about how the fish was breed as possible. That is great and I think that is a great idea. But it may scare others away form filling it out. I believe that was what Philip was trying to over come with his version of the BAP form. But I am not sure that is a good thing either.

As far as awards I believe the certificates we were giving out were fine, I don't think giving a monetary award is warranted. This is not a Bap program like there would be in a local club, were you would bring fish in so others could see that you breed them. So we have no way to prove that some one has breed the fish they said other than them filling out the form and writing a article for the AC.

I believe there may be a lot of people and members who have breed or our breeding native fish, but for what ever reason do not fill out the forms, but if asked would readily tell you what they are doing or have done to breed the fish (my self included). I have breed over 30 native fish (not allot) but have never filled out the forms, even though I have told Bob I will, Why? life! things just get in the way( work,children,house work, taking care of the fish I am breeding, checking e-mail, and now looking at the forum,) and many more things that could be mention.

So I am not sure how it could be fixed. The NFC had the same problem (lack of participation) before they got rid of there BAP program, when the were still active.

Maybe we need just a list of members who are actively breeding fish or have in the past, and what they have breed or are breeding. So that when someone asks how to do it we could let them contact that person directly. I know that is what the program was set up to do so that those people would only have to say it one time.



Leo S. Long

Troy, MI

Hmmm...

In the local fish/aquarium clubs I've seen, the BAP program is a revenue generator. To get BAP points, one has to donate the juveniles or fry to the club for auction. Then at the meeting, the fish are auctioned off...The club makes a few bucks to help cover expenses, recognition is given to the breeder, and often someone gets some new fish at a great price (small donation to the club)...

That is easy at a local fish club, we also do that at our club if the person breeding the fish would like to. But this being a national Org. with no monthly meeting, its not fesably as far as I can see. I believe the NFC tried something like that with there BAP, again no sucess.

Leo S. Long
Troy, MI

That is easy at a local fish club, we also do that at our club if the person breeding the fish would like to. But this being a national Org. with no monthly meeting, its not fesably as far as I can see. I believe the NFC tried something like that with there BAP, again no sucess.

Do I really need to point out the futility of citing NFC as an example of what NANFA can or cannot accomplish?

Hmmm...

In the local fish/aquarium clubs I've seen, the BAP program is a revenue generator. To get BAP points, one has to donate the juveniles or fry to the club for auction. Then at the meeting, the fish are auctioned off...The club makes a few bucks to help cover expenses, recognition is given to the breeder, and often someone gets some new fish at a great price (small donation to the club)...

That is a good thing.

That could work here. Could do a silent auction type of deal.

Tom

But this being a national Org. with no monthly meeting

Yes, I suppose that is the hard part. Then again NORML is a national organization that has local monthly club meetings in many cities...and this is a bunch of stoners we are talking about! While I'll admit that protecting/keeping/observing Native Fish might not have the draw or fan base that smoking grass does, it is still worth asking: Do we have enough members to at least have quarterly regional meetings?

If so, Those not able to attend due to distance or schedule conflicts could ship their fish in to one of the local club members to turn into the BAP program for them. In this way, even without a meeting in every city, a practical BAP program may be able to be established.

Looking in my latest copy of American Currents, on the inside front cover, I see we have an official Aquarium Society Liaison. So at some point in time someone here put some thought into cooperating with local aquarium clubs. Which, as many of us know, is a great place to get young fish out there into the hands of capable and dedicated hobbyists.

Do I really need to point out the futility of citing NFC as an example of what NANFA can or cannot accomplish?

I'm not saying that we can't or should not do it because the NFC tried and failed. Just that it was tried and the participation did not last. Heck I could care less what the NFC did or didn’t do. I have only been a member of Nanfa. If we decide to try this an, it works great, I just don't think that it will change the BAP program much.

Leo S. Long

It seems simple enough to me that if one were to be interested enough to participate, that digital photos, tagged with photo date (either on file details or on image itself) could allow for a chronological pictorial of their breeding activities). There are those among us that are internet savvy enough (and have wasted hours of thier lives, as have I, searching out pics) that plagarists could be "caught". Aside from the fact that most forum users and/or NANFA members know who each other are as well as able to tell the age of juvie fish!!! With this new fandangled internet we are all "local", its just a click away.... That's my 1.784795 cents....

Again to everyone, THANK YOU for this flippin' awsome forum and the information available from all those that participate!!!

OK some things were said here in the forum, other things were said on the mailing list, and still others were said in private email and phone calls.

I don't want to misrepresent anything that anyone else said. There seems to be some desire to refurbish the BAP by way of a new BAP committee but nothing formal has happened on that front yet.

If you don't care about the points or awards or anything, but just want to share what you've been working on with other NANFA members, drop me a private message. I'm working with Chris Scharpf to become a regular contributor to American Currents and can include details of your successes in Riffles or possibly in some other way.

OK some things were said here in the forum, other things were said on the mailing list, and still others were said in private email and phone calls.

I don't want to misrepresent anything that anyone else said. There seems to be some desire to refurbish the BAP by way of a new BAP committee but nothing formal has happened on that front yet.

If you don't care about the points or awards or anything, but just want to share what you've been working on with other NANFA members, drop me a private message. I'm working with Chris Scharpf to become a regular contributor to American Currents and can include details of your successes in Riffles or possibly in some other way.

Either way whether it comes from the BAP or AC the article should be posted on the site so that it can benefit others trying to breed that species or a closely related species. I personally am not interested in any award or anything, I would do it so that others may benefit from things I learned the hard way.
I would volunteer to be on the BAP committee if it gets reformed.

Tom

A new interactive form has been posted on the website: http://nanfa.org/bap.shtml

Please take the time to report any breeding activity. The more information the better, but even partial reports are better than what we have now.

We used to have an online form which was created in ASP and required a SQL database but we no longer have support for that. We are looking for one of two things :

• Someone capable and willing to host this service on a Windows Server platform
• Someone capable and willing to convert the form to PHP/MySQL

PM me if you can volunteer for either.

Good stuff Drew!

One word of caution about using the form (and this is NOT a criticism ).

If you do not have a full version of Acrobat on your computer, you will be able to type in this until the cows come home... But you WILL NOT be able to save the file. Sometimes it warns you, but with some versions of reader, it does not.

Before you spend a big amount of time writing something, test it to make sure that after saving, closing and re-opening that your typed text is present. I've run into this a couple times with grant proposals that gave intereactive pdfs and had people spend a bunch of time writing and only to have nothing.

Todd

Good stuff Drew!

One word of caution about using the form (and this is NOT a criticism ).

If you do not have a full version of Acrobat on your computer, you will be able to type in this until the cows come home... But you WILL NOT be able to save the file. Sometimes it warns you, but with some versions of reader, it does not.

Before you spend a big amount of time writing something, test it to make sure that after saving, closing and re-opening that your typed text is present. I've run into this a couple times with grant proposals that gave intereactive pdfs and had people spend a bunch of time writing and only to have nothing.

Todd

I'm sure lots of members don't have the full price version and Todd is right, if you type in the data it will be lost if you close it. At the same time I was warned before I entered any data and then again once I closed the PDF. You can easily print the document and mail it off or even scan and e-mail it. I will personally reimburse the cost of a stamp to anyone (via paypal only) that submits this document via USPS.