Treating Ich on Cyprinids - What really works?

Hey Everybody,

I've been looking into the ich problem on smaller fish, specifically cyprinids (minnows). Here's what I am generally finding on the internet concerning this problem:

Some say malachite green is the way to go, others say stay away.

Some say copper is the way to go, others say stay away.

Some say aquarium salt is the way to go, some say stay away.

Almost everybody says a healthy tank is best, but ich could always strike (so, what do you do if it does...?)

Has anyone successfully treated ich on the more delicate cyprinids? What did you do?

Thanks,

Curt

Has anyone successfully treated ich on the more delicate cyprinids? What did you do?

First thing I always try is hydrogen peroxide, 1/2 to 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons every 24 hours until the fish appear healthy again.

I use the same treatment proactively for eggs and fry, which greatly reduces mortality rates.

I'm not going to tell you that it takes out stains, too, but... oh... wait... yes it does.

I use salt and this has worked in all cases but one and I lost fish. So it doesn't always work. I'm not fond of malachite green but only since I've not found it effective. I don't use copper but guys I trust have used it on fish with great success (not necessarily cyps). Perhaps they'll chime in.

Magnus, I'm curious about the peroxide and ich. I can't say I've heard of that as a remedy in the past. Do you know why it works??

OK firstly I am not the first to propose this. I think it is Tropical Science brand fish meds are selling ich medicine with H2O2 as their active ingredient. So I'm not out of my head here.

I should have also mentioned... with ich and other parasites, you want to bump up the tank temperature a few degrees to hasten the life cycle of the parasite.

I've heard of others removing infected fish from the tank and directly applying H2O2 but I've not tried that, nor would I necessarily suggest something so radical for something as simple as ich.

More information on the use of H2O2 in aquaculture paid for by your tax dollars: http://www.emtc.usgs...n_peroxide.html

Also see "Rach J. J., M. P. Gaikowski, and R. T. Ramsay. 2001. Efficacy of Hydrogen Peroxide to Control
Parasitic Infestations on Hatchery Reared Fish. Journal of Aquatic Animal Health 12(4):267-
273." From the abstract:

The efficacy of hydrogen peroxide to control parasite numbers on rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus
mykiss) was evaluated in three clinical field trials conducted at two Wisconsin Department of
Natural Resources hatcheries. In separate trials, rainbow trout were transferred from the source
culture unit into a test system of 12 individually plumbed tanks. Each tank was supplied with a
continuous flow of hatchery water at a flow rate providing an exchange rate similar to that of the
culture unit. Fish in trials 1 and 2 were exposed to hydrogen peroxide concentrations of 50, 100,
or 200 µL/L for 30 min once every-other-day for a total of three treatments. Fish in trial 3 were
exposed to hydrogen peroxide concentrations of 50, 100, or 200 µL/L for 30 min once every-other-day for a total of three treatments. Pre and post-treatment (analyzed 4 h after last treatment, except in Trial 3 analyzed at 14d ) skin and
gill samples were microscopically examined to identify and enumerate external parasites.
The severity of the infestation was classified as low (1-10 organisms), moderate (11-20),
or high (?21). Ambiphrya numbers on the skin of the test fish was high at the inition of
trial 1. Post-treatment examinations indicated Ambiphrya was eliminated from all treated
fish, while control fish remained highly infested with Ambiphrya. In trial 2 pretreatment
examinations of skin and gill samples indicated a high infestation of the trematode
Gyrodactylus (skin) and the protozoan Trichodina (gills) on all fish. Post-treatment
examinations of treated fish revealed Gyrodactylus was eliminated from the skin,
however, high numbers of Trichodina remained on the gills. All control fish remained
highly infected with Trichodina (gills) and Gyrodactylus (skin). High numbers of
Ambiphrya were present on the skin of test fish in trial 3. Post-treatment skin
examinations indicated Ambiphrya was eliminated from most treated fish (56 %), even
though the last treatment was applied 14 d previously. Control fish remained highly
infested with the parasite. Hydrogen peroxide treatments were efficacious in the control
of the protozoan Ambiphrya and the monogenetic trematode Gyrodactylus.

The above is more relevant to using H2O2 to treat external parasites (like ich).

I've used it with great success in preventing egg fungus as well (which has been supported by many studies which are referenced in one of the above links)

Interesting link. It seems that it is also effective against columnaris (typically misdiagnosed in the hobby as mouth/fin fungus). I have for the past couple years been using peroxide in the water when I collect (which has sadly been rarely), just to add a little extra oxygen (thinking it might help with stress). Seems that there is a real reason for me to continue.

A medication mentioned in the link is 35%Perox-Aid. An interesting FOIA summary about the studies on it is available at: http://www.fda.gov/c...-255o011107.pdf

Magnus,

That is interesting. I would think the hydrogen peroxide would just breakdown into oxygen and water when put into water. Oxygen in high levels could certainly be lethal, however.

You say, too, that ich is "simple." I wish I had that confidence!

OK firstly I am not the first to propose this. I think it is Tropical Science brand fish meds are selling ich medicine with H2O2 as their active ingredient. So I'm not out of my head here.

Sorry if I sounded "snotty" that was not my intention. I guess that dose seems very low to have such an impact and I'm curious to know what exactly makes it work so well. I love the thought of H2O2 as an easy and safe quarantine product.

I would think the hydrogen peroxide would just breakdown into oxygen and water when put into water.

It does. But not immediately.

Ive had very good success with flubendazole, 1/4 teasp of 5% flub powder per 5 gallons.
i've cleared ich, velvet, and some un-ID's skin-slime parasite (costia maybe?) on shiners and dace with this med. it's intended as a veterinary de-wormer, and also kills hexamita, gill flukes, hydra, snails. doesnt seem to bother plants or disrupt nitrification. i'm guessing it'll kill shrimp & crayfish.
see Charles Harrison's info at http://inkmkr.com/Fi...zoleArticle.pdf

Ive had very good success with flubendazole, 1/4 teasp of 5% flub powder per 5 gallons.

Where would you get flubendazole?

Coppersafe kills ich. It will also kill your plants, snails, and any other inverts. I have used it only once for ich. And it was on Pternotropis welaka. That is about as sensitive as they get. Worked fantastic. The fish did not seem stressed at all. Though they died 4 months later. But most of the others who took welaka from this same location, at the same time, lost their fish by four months also. So I was impressed with its efficacy, but would my fish have lived longer in captivity? That I don't know.

Skipjack, in my experience, is correct. Copper is 100% effective in combating ich.
Remove any inverts and most plants from the tank before using the copper though.
I have found that java moss and fern will suffer but not die from copper.
Just put some carbon in your filter when you are done with the medication and the copper is removed quickly.
I have not lost any fish ever from coppersafe dosing.

I've had one outbreak of Ich since I set up my tank, and ended up using Aquarium Products Quick Cure.
It's a formalin/malechinte green combo, and it worked extremely well. The outbreak(a pronounced one)was completely eliminated in a week, and I lost no fish. I also did not loose any inverts(at the time, there was a very large population of mixed snails, as well as a half dozen shrimp, as well as a bunch of small native inverts), nor any plants. The package warns that inverts and plants may suffer, but I was told "off the record" that it's extremely rare for this to occur,and healthy plants and inverts generally show no harm from normal application levels.
I raised the tank temp to 85(at the time, I had just shingers and mud minnows), which accelerated the life cycle of the cysts to the point that it took only a few day's to effect a cure.
One time since, I noticed a few cysts on some of the shiners, and did a simple one day dose of quick cure. Within a few days, the cysts were gone, and no further infection was forthcoming. I know that a single day should not have any effect..so I can only assume there was a bit of formalin or something still in the water when the cysts hatched.