Who here has experience with restoration?

I have a wetlands. Aerial photography from the 1980's clearly evidences two ponds on the property. I know exactly where they were.

I know I need to collapse drain tiles on the property and I have some direction on clearing the Phragmites but there are other invasives present that will need to be dealt with too over the years to come. I also know that at some point in time I will have to dredge the areas that used to be ponds in attempt to get them back to their original depths which sustained life. I believe they were at depths of 10-12'.

If it's not too much trouble, would anyone who has any experience restoring and restocking ponds please share their trials and tribulations with me? I'd really like there to be a day where I walk out there (in my snowshoes) and see those two ponds teaming with life. I look forward to seeing a few native fish swimming around too and will need help selecting what to put back to jump start the process at some point in time.

PM sent.

Where's Mr. Schlueter? Dredgeing/sediment removal (i.e. modification) necessitates a 404 possibly even 401 permit, correct?

Where's Mr. Schlueter? Dredgeing/sediment removal (i.e. modification) necessitates a 404 possibly even 401 permit, correct?

Correct.

Correct for most situations but to each new situation is brought a new set of variables.

Prior to 2001, the Army Corp of Engineers had jurisdiction over my property. To the best of my knowledge they don't any longer so there will be no need for either a 404 or a 401. I'm no where near the dredging phase because I'm going to have to remove the Phragmites first but once I get to that phase it is my understanding I will be working with the Stormwater Management Commission for my County. We long ago realized we had to officially determine which entity had regulatory authority over the wetlands on our property. We have a written jurisdictional determination stating this is an isolated body of water therefore the permit I believe I will need will be the WDO permit from the SMC... when I get to that phase... which is several years off if not longer based on all the invasives out there and based on me being one person trying to deal with it all myself. The WDO permit is only a couple thousand dollars which is a welcome relief. Other than that, the material dredged out will remain on the property which will negate the need for incurring the expense of yet another permit. I have a site reserved on our property to create a berm using any material dredged out of those two areas which once were ponds. I have a very dated wetlands delineation study in my hands that includes a vegetation inventory and that's what I'm going to be working from. What I don't have is an inventory of what once called those two ponds home. When I get to the point that I can see light at the end of the tunnel, I'll hopefully be able to get help here from you good folk with what goes back into those ponds otherwise I guess I just sit and let the birds do their thing. It's a start. I'm trying my best.

Hey I'm personally impressed. It's alot more than other people understand or care to investigate they'd just rather bring in the backhoe. Whew a couple thousand for an isolated wetlands permit? Are they charging by the acre and if so what is the rate or size of the area?

Ah, I didn't realize your wetlands were isolated. Yes, that changes everything, and doesn't require Corps involvement. As you said, you do need a state permit (or other permit, as regulated by your state), but that is much easier to deal with. You might want to check with the Corps District Office in your region about the length of time the Jurisdictional Determination is valid. In my area, they are valid for 5 years. Not sure if that's a National or District thing.

For an idea of what called your ponds "home", you will want to find a reference pond/wetland or two. That is, a pond/wetland of a similar size as yours that is also in a similar landscape position (e.g. isolated). Then, you can take a look at what is there for both flora and fauna. You would then try to create the conditions and species compositions of the reference pond/wetland. If you find such a pond, you can ask the landowner if they will let you poke around. Tell them why - that they have a pond in good ecological condition that you would like to use as a template - and they will most likely say yes. I have found that many people are pleased to own an environmentally healthy feature and are willing to let you look at it. Especially if you write up what you found for them!

If I bring in a backhoe, I might compromise a seed bank. I haven't researched the issue enough to be able to make an educated decision as to exactly how I want those two areas dredged. To be quite honest with you, I don't know that I want a backhoe back there. A hydrosaw back there when everything is frozen is one thing but a backhoe? I dunno. These operators do not thoroughly clean the treads of their equipment when they move it from site to site and I don't need any more problems than what I already have.

Yup, about $2,500 for an isolated wetlands permit. I don't believe they are charging by the acre but more so based on the type of regulated activity. I could be wrong because I didn't take the time to delve into specifics as applying for that permit was going to be a long ways off. Lots can change between now and then. All I wanted was a ballpark figure. It could end up being a couple thousand more but based on my representations of what I had in mind in the way of enhancements, two different people stated they believed that to be the range I would be in. What I do know is that I'm not currently staring down another wetlands delineation study which costs around $7,500 around here. What would a new delineation study reveal? That we’re even more infested than we were when the original was taken?

I need to stick with what is within my comfort range. Right now, all that's within my comfort range is going for the Phragmites, Phalaris, Lythrum, and the Typha. I'm relatively confident I can't screw that up and set myself back. When I get some of this whacked back, it is my intent to hire an environmental engineering firm to come in and dredge but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thank you nativelover for mentioning that a JD may only be valid for 5 years. I have two choices in procuring another JD. I can procure one from the Army Corps or I can procure one from the SMC. If I apply to the Army Corps- Chicago District, the JD is free but I’m going to end up waiting for it. If I apply to the SMC, I’ll have it in my hands within a few months for a fee of about $750.

I also thank you for the suggestion to locate a reference pond. Everything around here looks beautiful and green until you look closer and realize that probably upwards of 75% of the flora is introduced. Look a little bit closer and you'll start spotting fauna that doesn't belong. The properties around here are so degraded I can honestly say I haven’t seen any good reference ponds. The Army Corps of Engineer folk and the Wetlands Specialists for SMC have all been really great and they seem to sincerely like my ideas so I bet as I get closer to that phase I could call any one of them and respectfully ask that they share with me any such reference ponds that might exist in my county. That was a really great suggestion. Never thought of going to the people who are actually inspecting and permitting to suggest a decent reference pond. The other deal is that I’m a pretty good sport about working in the community and as silly as this may sound; this may come down to who knows who, who knows who, who might be able to steer me toward clean un-infested waters on a large parcel of privately owned undeveloped land.

Right now, I could really use input from anyone else who has tackled something like this. I know there is going to be a learning curve. I'd prefer to keep it to a minimum though. Most of my mistakes haven’t been fun enough that I'd want to repeat any of them. Suppose I should add that many of my mistakes have been costly from a time standpoint. It’s that old two or three steps backwards to take one step forward deal that is getting real old.

If I bring in a backhoe, I might compromise a seed bank. I haven't researched the issue enough to be able to make an educated decision as to exactly how I want those two areas dredged. To be quite honest with you, I don't know that I want a backhoe back there. A hydrosaw back there when everything is frozen is one thing but a backhoe? I dunno. These operators do not thoroughly clean the treads of their equipment when they move it from site to site and I don't need any more problems than what I already have.

I don't think ashtonmj was actually recomending that you bring in a backhoe.

Hey I'm personally impressed. It's alot more than other people understand or care to investigate they'd just rather bring in the backhoe.

You may not want to rely on the seed bank of your wetland due to the high abundance of seed that Phragmites puts out. Also, if you do have Lythrum, it will have almost certainly infiltrated your seed bank. Your best bet will likely be to try to install actual plants (e.g. plugs) so that they cover the soil surface and inhibit germination of these species by shading.

Well, we can shoot in the dark all day long...

What are the soils you're on?
What's the historic plant community?
What's the history of land use?
Were the ponds historic, or were they improved vernal areas for a hog waller or something?

There's a lot of things that go into what type of management plan you want for the property. For example, one of the best restoration tools we've found in our oak barrens and twig rush prairies here in Toledo are BULLDOZERS.

One of the highest quality wetland tracts we have here is where a pig farm was, and where the duff was shoved up into a big pile, leaving the bare sand, exposed water table... Viola! 7 state endangered plants. You CAN'T walk through the thing without trampling all sorts of listed stuff. As well, due to lowering the water table and fire suppression, forests have sprung up where there was once prairie. Developers have made some really kickin' prairies by "improving" the sites to sell them faster by bulldozing the woods. The less gentle, the better!

You tell this to someone trying to restore oak hickory woodlot in Kentucky and they'll shriek. There isn't a better way to cultivate canada thistle with a succession of honeysuckle and garlic mustard.

I've worked with both clay (Black Swamp) and sand (Oak Openings) soil wetlands. But I gotta know some constraints. When you say tiles, that sounds clayey... But I'm not making any assumptions. I've seen some crazy stuff in mesic sand prairies that you just shake your head and go on.

Here you can look at this... This was a concept site I did last spring. Maybe we'll get this rockin' this winter. Check out the natural history part. You can see why it's just flat silly to put tiles down on the Ecology link.

http://www.farmertod...ese/new/oor.htm

Also... You should be able to get into some conservation program to reinstate the wetlands, esp if you're on the flyway (that'll getcha Duck Unlimited and USFWS). And you shouldn't have to make them jurisdictional to apply. In fact, everyone is more happy if they're not.

This is so awesome... I'm not allowed to work with plant restoration (besides at the house) until I finish my PhD. But since this IS a fish site.... None the wiser! And it'll like, help fish, too, and stuff.

Here's to mudminners and grass pickerel swimmin' 'cross yer land!

Todd

There are people who dredge smaller ponds with backhoes around here. I don't know enough to comment whether this would be best for my particular situation or not. Right now I've got about the equivalent of a huge wet compost pit so anything will be an improvement. I'd love for others who have dredged small ponds to share their experiences.

Good old Lythrum, mother of millions. I've been cutting off the tops of them to stop them from setting seed. I bag them and toss them out with the garbage. Galerucella may really be putting a dent in Lythrum around here. I could very well be out of my mind, but I really think I've noticed a major difference in just the last two years at two sites I frequent.
http://www.inhs.uiuc...oosestrife.html
Regardless, that is the only plant I go in and get the minute I see that purple because each plant is capable of spawning a million evil seeds. I haven't done anything about the Phragmites though. It's just sort of hanging out there looking hideous waiting for me to come and find a way to get it. I've really got to go out and take some photos so you can get a feel for what's going on here.

You're probably 100% right about not counting on a seedbank but don't anyone be crashing my dreams by providing me with a reality check right now. I have found some very nice native sedges in a small area to the north of me. I'm not all that great with my identification of sedges and grasses but I believe I might have Carex stricta, C. chordorrhiza, aquatilus, and bebeii plus a few others I haven't been able to identify that could be native. I also think I found some sort of Juncus (validus?). I'll need help with IDs from somebody who knows what they're doing, grasses and sedges are hard for me. Plugs would be ideal. I don't know that I will be in a position to afford a couple acres of appropriate plugs in one fell swoop but maybe I will be able to afford some. I can propagate just about anything. Thoughts were to hunt down seed of desirable species to create my own plugs to try to save money.

farmertodd, I walked off to do laundry and left the page up. Didn't see your reply until I walked the dogs and grabbed myself something to eat and previewed the post. Quick answers to your questions.
1) Do you want me to hire somebody to come out and do a professional soil survey?
2) I have a delineation study from the late 70’s or early 80's. I'm pretty sure I can get my hands on that and if I can’t, I can go pick up a copy at the county building. It was quite comprehensive and I viewed it as my Torah and Talmud so I put it in a really safe place. The research station has no information on this property prior to those delineation studies.
3) Original farm house was on the property where we built our home. I am told this was a dairy farm by some while others claim it was a mink farm. I would tend to believe it was once a dairy farm although I have seen mink running around down by the Des Plaines River.
4) To the best of my knowledge, ponds were historic.

Yup, clayey as you call it. Maybe I should set up a pottery shop to fund my misadventures? I remember the clay when they were excavating for the foundation of the house. We know there are drain tiles everywhere. They must have tried to drain the wetlands. How do you best find them?

The other portion of my property is a remnant oak/hickory savanna. I have a vernal creek on the property.

I believe I am in a flyway. I’ve contacted that damn Ducks Unlimited three times now. They always say they will have somebody contact me and nobody ever does.

Psst, I have snowshoes and my husband said I could have a Stihl for Mother’s Day.

Lorax,

Okay, now I know what I'm working with. Yeah, bulldozer = bad idea. Your seed bank is most likely exhausted. And no, I just wanted to know if it was sand or clay or what. General terms on soil. Not the actual unit.

One management thing you should look into for the purple plague is to start your own purple plague. Buy a ton of joe pye weed, winged loosetrife and marsh blazing star seed and dump it out there. Plant plugs if you want.

This is where it sucks that I don't work with plants, since I'd test this hypothesis... But it occured to me last year that we're fighting fighting fighting with these plants and then not providing an alternative. If there's no natural source for replacement, then what's going to come back after you've locally extirpated the plant? Island biogeographic theory says your bigger "island" will have the most success recolonizing, and since that is the seed bank of loosetrife, it's much more likely to return. So why not change the relative size of the "islands", and start making an island of other purple plants? Honey bees may prefer purple loosetrife, but not if they can't get to it.

This is part of my theory on invasives. We're ignoring the theoretical constructs of ecology because we're too busy beating our heads again the wall. We generally accept that these species are proliferant because they're better competitors, and I just don't see that. Loosetrife, Phrag, zebra mussels, gobies... The whole nine. I think their success is due to facilitated interactions, but that's a real bugger to test hypotheses, compared to competitive interaction. Especially when the facilitator is invasive species number 1

As for the tiles, yeah you're going to want to figure out where they're at. I bet that vernal stream wasn't so vernal historically. Sounds like a good ol' prairie seep that would have had least darter and the like in there. You've got a lot of organizations there doing wetland and flyway work... I'm sure you've already started hunting them all down. You might talk to some of the people upstream in Wisconsin. In the limited Google search I just did, it seems like they really have their crap together.

By having clay, you might be able to just put in a small dike in a critical area, if the gradient is low. I don't think dredging is the answer. But then I'm not standing there looking at it either

Todd

Although I suspect the vast majority of the interior seedbank is exhausted, there do exist pockets of some very desirable species within what I would refer to as the former upper and lower shorelines.

The Purple Plague as you call it, appears to attract mostly European Honeybees. Although the European honeybees are filling a pollination niche, I’ve provided for the local Mason Bee population so I’m ok with trying to stick with indigenous species once present on the property per the delineation study. It’s about all I have to go by to attempt to restore some semblance of balance.

My beliefs of the invasion process may deviate somewhat from yours but I do agree that “alternative” species need to be pre-selected, pre-purchased, and ready to go in the ground once the eradication process begins. One thing is for sure, invasives are opportunistic invaders wreaking havoc in the environment and when there’s one species downed… another seems to be standing in line to take its place.

The tiles are going to be tough.

I agree, that vernal stream probably wasn’t so vernal just 50 years ago. The entire hydrology of this property has been altered due to the colonization of invasives. Good that you should mention a prairie seep. When I cleared an area up front of Rhamnus and Lonicera, I found species bouncing back from a seedbank that would have been consistent with a mesic prairie plant community. A small dike is probably out by the way. I don’t think that would be approved but definitely something to research.

I also agree with you that Wisconsin is far more progressive than Illinois. One of the reasons why I gravitate toward their programming for educational workshops and such.

Nope, I hadn’t started hunting down all organizations doing wetlands or flyway work. Ducks Unlimited was the only organization I attempted to contact because when we first bought this property, there were wood ducks here. There were also many muskrats here. I tried to provide the wood ducks with nest boxes to encourage them to hang out here but hadn’t done my homework nearly well enough. I also provided nest boxes to screech owls and downy woodpeckers years before we even began construction on the home. No good deed goes unpunished I guess. English house sparrows destroyed eggs and massacred offspring of every species I provided nest boxes for and I wasn’t around for months on end to make the connection until the year we began construction and we began noticing the cute little house sparrows flying in and out of all of our nest boxes. All nest boxes were taken down. I am so sorry. It’s many years later and I’m up to speed on what needs to be done and now practice both passive and active sparrow control. Nothing personal, the sparrows are nothing more than a species out of place trying to eek out an existence but they all go to bird heaven over here these days. Cavity nesters have a tough enough go of it as it is around here without that type of competition. I suppose I should go try to track down somebody at Ducks Unlimited again. I suspect they would be most familiar with habitat requirements. While I initiate contact again, would anyone be in a position to please suggest any other organizations that might be of assistance?

Contact NRCS for your region http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/

That's the first place to go since the tract has a history of agriculture. If they don't have a program that fits you, they put you in touch with people who do. It's an awesome resource.

And yeah, you'll get some of your hydrology back once you get the dense stands of buckthorn and so forth out. They evapotranspire much more compared to rushes and sedges. Sometimes we'll have mesic areas go wet once we get the silver maples out. We calculated that a single 8" silver maple evapo's 6700 gallons of water per year. That's before it uses any on its own for photosynthesis! TNC cut out an enormous stand of buckthorn this year on one of the wet mesic tracts. I can't wait to see what that does for water.

While I'm thinking about it... This spring you might set out some baited fish traps in your "vernal" area (I like to put salami in a nylon bag that's tied to the trap). You may have some real surprises who shows up.... Crayfish, salamanders, and fish! Wet prairies were what got me interested in studying ditches. Places that were totally dry most of the year would have 8 or so species of fish show up at spawning time. It's amazing some of the places we've found mudminnows, green sunfish and grass pickerel.

Todd

CREP is another program that I just thought of. Turns out they're on the run in IL already

http://www.ilcrep.org/

Todd

Left a message at my county's service center for the NRCS. Thanks, never thought of them. For others interested in Lake County IL, the number is 847.223.1056 although it appears no where on their website. I'll contact CREP on Monday. Thanks for that tip too.

Best guess is that in excess of 90% of the Rhamnus spp. has been removed from this property. I did it, virtually all by myself over the past several years with my hands, my weed wrench, and my little chainsaw. Same deal with the Lonicera, there can't be much more than 100 of those left standing as of today. Had no idea the evapotranspiration rate was so incredibly high for Silver Maple. That's wild. You don't happen to know what it is for Acer saccharum or Salix babylonica do you? I regularly remove the A. saccharinum volunteers and long ago suspected those exotic weeping willows everyone seems so enamored with were resource hogs so I did have every intention of downing the three that were planted on this property. Problem is they're going to have to wait because they're a little bit much for my chainsaw.

I have no experience with baited fish traps. Might be a great way to catch rusty crayfish though. Tell me about baited fish traps please. There's water running in my "vernal" creek right now. Don't recall ever having seen water running in it at this time of year. Hm, greatest push for Rhamnus removal made by me was last fall where I took down well over 500 and most were mature multi stems. I'm wondering if there isn't some correlation now that you mention it? Which TNC wet mesic tract?

editing to add- CREP looks interesting. Don't know that I am all that comfortable with a permanent easement though. Need to definitely research this further.

editing again to add-
http://dnr.state.il....centives.htm#PW

Objective
Restore wetlands on private land in Illinois to provide habitat for transient waterfowl and other wildlife, improve surface water quality, provide flood protection and recharge groundwater through a fund matching agreement with the IDNR Division of Wildlife Resources.

Incentive
Up to 100% cost-share for restoring wetlands including survey and design, construction of earthen dikes, tile excavation and installing water control structures.

Requirements
Private landowners with restorable wetlands, which they agree to maintain for 10 years.

editing yet again-
Any familiarity with this organization-
http://www.pheasants...page/1/home.jsp
Pheasants are an introduced species so one of my eyebrows is somewhat raised.

Is this what you had in mind when you mentioned baited fish traps?
http://www.friday.co...pest-fish-trap/

Did find quite a few like this advertised online-
http://www.castnetwo...tfishtraps.html

I think those last styles are too big for my little vernal creek but perhaps there are other vendors offering smaller baited fish traps?

I've not dealt with Pheasants Forever directly, but they've done some huge things for improved ecological function so they can blow up a bird that's never really taken off in an invasive way. And honestly, it fills a vacated niche that I appreciate them filling in lieu of grouse and quail in my neck of the woods (ie keeping ticks down). Of course, I'd rather see prairie chickens any day, or work on grouse and quail as they have a more historical context.

I don't know what the evapotrans rate for other species is. We just calculated it as silver maple are one of the species that's benefit from dropping the water table, thus overgrowing what was prairie. And they do it amazingly fast due to all the good nutrients the prairies have deposited under the soil in the last couple thousand years.

NRCS will help work with you to find the program you're most comfortable with. I just sent it along to show another option that I ran across in my day NRCS will probably also point you to CREP as an option, etc.

I was talking about something like this:

 minnowtrap.jpg   66.7KB   1 downloads

You can get these at Kmart, Meijer, Wally World, Dicks, Gander Mountain, etc for like $7 a piece.

Todd

The niche they occupy is rather innocuous. I doubt they have any measurable impact on the native communities however bobolinks, meadowlarks, ruffed grouse, and a host of other native birds have a difficult time due to a shortage of grassland habitats. Barring this, I suspect I am too far north for a sustainable pheasant population anyway and wouldn't be into raising them from chicks for release.

Glad you mentioned quail.
http://www.qu.org/

I'll go pick up one of those bait traps from Gander Mountain. What do I do to get IDs on anything I catch? Just start a new thread and post a photo? And speaking of which, I'm uncomfortable handling the fish to take a photo because no one has ever taught me how to do so. I'd be afraid they'd flop out of my hand and hit the ground. Most of the photos I see here are of fish in someone's hand. Alternatives?