To Todd and Matt A. Take a look closely at the anal fin on any of the pictures and you can see the individual segments of the rays where I was counting. If you look at the lighter areas you sugested to count there are no such segments which would mean those are the membranes between the rays not the rays.
If you want a 100% sure ID on one of these sacrifice 1 of them and send it to us at the Museum. We can do the counts and send you back a definite answer.
Spotfin or Steelcolor
Started by
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, Feb 11 2008 12:22 PM
29 replies to this topic
#22
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:51 PM
Okey dokey. Thanks for 'splain-in' it. 
Todd
Todd
#23
Guest_NateTessler13_*
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Posted 15 February 2008 - 10:06 AM
Darn, I had a video of a full breeding dress Steelcolor fighting for spawning space with Spotfin Shiners...can't find it though. The Steelcolor definitely displayed the red nose and the large dorsal fin. If I find it...
#24
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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:07 PM
Darn, I had a video of a full breeding dress Steelcolor fighting for spawning space with Spotfin Shiners...can't find it though. The Steelcolor definitely displayed the red nose and the large dorsal fin. If I find it...
If you find it, it would be interesting to see if the spotfins displayed the enlarged dorsal fin.
Mark
#25
Guest_NateTessler13_*
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Posted 15 February 2008 - 12:16 PM
There was a definite size difference in the dorsal. The Steelcolor dorsal fin was much larger and would even "hang" down when the fin wasn't erect. The Spotfin dorsal was smaller and when the fin wasn't erect it would sit much more evenly on the top of the fish. If the fish pictured is a Spotfin, he has dorsal fin characteristics of a Steelcolor for sure.If you find it, it would be interesting to see if the spotfins displayed the enlarged dorsal fin.
Mark
#26
Guest_tricolor_*
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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:23 PM
Wondering is the number of branched fin ray in NA minnows fixed? In Danio and others of the group the number of branched rays often vary a bit.
#27
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Posted 16 February 2008 - 09:44 PM
There is some variation and it depends on the species to an extent. These two species that works a very high percentage of the time but in some ray counts vary too much to be very reliable.
#28
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Posted 16 February 2008 - 10:56 PM
I finally found these pictures...
Here's my argument, ray counts and all that shady "ID from an online picture" business... Below is a fully-fired spotfin from MO, from a population sympatric with steelcolor.
spotfin.jpg 61.67KB
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Bill's picture isn't even of a fully tuberculate male... What does his fish look like when it's fired up all the way???
There's no way in hades that fish is a spotfin. And it ain't a G.D. hybrid either. lol
Todd
Here's my argument, ray counts and all that shady "ID from an online picture" business... Below is a fully-fired spotfin from MO, from a population sympatric with steelcolor.
spotfin.jpg 61.67KB
0 downloadsBill's picture isn't even of a fully tuberculate male... What does his fish look like when it's fired up all the way???
There's no way in hades that fish is a spotfin. And it ain't a G.D. hybrid either.
lolTodd
#29
Guest_ashtonmj_*
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Posted 17 February 2008 - 09:07 AM
Tubercle size...and fin pigmentation...I'm telling ya...regardless of the erroneous fin counts I may have believed in the tubercle size becomes smaller moving up the nape on Bill's fish.
#30
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Posted 10 March 2008 - 05:54 PM
My two-cents worth (probably only worth about half that). We get steelcolor, spotfin, and whitetails all in and around the Clinch and Holston drainages and I ain't never seen a spotfin anywhere that had that kind of dorsal fin development. The coloration and shape of the dorsal almost looks more like a whitetails than either of the other two. I guess I'd have to vote for steelcolor, just on looks and location. Whatever it is, it is a fine example of one!
Rick Phillips
Upper Tennessee River Drainage (mostly)
Rick Phillips
Upper Tennessee River Drainage (mostly)
Edited by rick, 10 March 2008 - 05:57 PM.
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