Pond design idea ,long post
#1 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 12 February 2008 - 11:30 PM
I came up with what I think is a good idea. I am a machinist and I have a wonderful selection of tools so this job will be cheaper for me than others but it should still be pretty simple.
What I am going to do is take a strip of 24 gauge galvanized sheet metal 40' by 3'or 4' an bend the last 2" on each end over in opposite directions so that they will hook together to form a ring about 12' in diameter. I will then put some silicone in the seam to seal it, hammer it flat and bolt through it with 1/4-20 stainless screws. You could also use other sizes of sheet and have more than one seam. I am going to cut 1/2" cuts in the bottom side of ring 2" apart and bend them in and out alternately leaving one straight between. The bent ones will help hold the ring in the concrete when you pour it and the ones you don't bend will hold the ring up to allow concrete to run under to the outside. Then you dig a flat spot for the tank lay down a layer of road base gravel and some screen. Then you put the ring of sheet metal on the gravel and screen, if you want a drain in the bottom you should put it in before the gravel and screen. I will then pour in between 2" and 3" of concrete (a little more than a yard) and paint it with epoxy paint to seal it and protect it so it will last longer. The top edge will have a garden hose split down the side on it to cover the sharp edge.
I am going to change water out daily with a garden water timer set to water the amount I want daily probably early in the morning. The water inlet will be on the side of the tank at an angle so that the water coming in will create a whirl pool effect to increase the aeration effect. The over flow will draw water from the bottom and drain it into my garden beds instead of watering them directly. The water coming out will help fertilize the garden and save me money in water costs. I am planning to build a large worm bed and feed the weeds and my house hold compost to the worms that will in turn feed the fish.
This set up should create a low cost food source for me and should be fun.
The tank metal at todays prices will be about $100.00
The bolts will be about $20.00
The concrete home made will cost about $120.00 or premix form the supplier about $200.00
The road base is about $45.00 a yard( more than enough)
The screen cost varies in price but I will use some I already have. Chicken wire should work but I am going with something stronger.
I don't have prices on the paint yet.
Add an old garden hose and whatever fittings you need and you have a nice aquaculture pool that will last a long time,
between 2500 and 4000 gallons for around $350.00
I will be starting this project some time in the next few months. When I am done I will post pics and info on how it went.
I will be stocking the pond first year with about 50 ea. of bluegill and cat fish to see which will do better in this setup. I figure I should be able to raise 500 or more pounds of good quality fish in this tank but I am going to work up to it from 100 lbs. or so the first year. You could also save money by going out and collecting fish for the tank Bluegill, Green sunfish, Bullhead, etc. Then the fish would cost you nothing but some time at the lake or river.
#2 Guest_choupique_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:05 AM
I think It is a good Idea to be using the waste water to grow plants and worms. Plus the market for food fish is good from what I hear, if you can get all the permits and stuff to do it.
#3 Guest_Skipjack_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:06 AM
#4 Guest_teleost_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:17 AM
#5 Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:27 AM
You might consider partially sinking the pond into the ground - that would take some of the stress off that 24 gauge. If you use a concrete bottom you can make it funnel shaped, with a drain/filter intake at the center of the funnel.
Intriguing idea. I'll follow your progress and make my own plans accordingly!
#6 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 01:11 AM
My tank will not get the kind of abuse that a pool or stock tank would get so I don't have to worry about that. I am thinking of adding some bands of 1/8"x1" steel around the top middle and bottom to add strength to the system but I don't think they are necessary. My brother is a mechanical engineer and I may have him do a stress analysis on the design before I build it. I know that 27,000 lbs. of water sounds like a lot but you have to consider that most of that weight is on the slab not the side walls of the tank. The wall only get a small fraction of that weight. The tinsel strength of the sheet is probably around 10,000 pounds for a 3 foot sheet of galvanized steel sheet which is way way more than I think I will need.
The only point that I worry about is the seam so I am going to double it form mi original design. With a 2" overlap and double bolts.
I thought about using a pool but I don't want a gopher to dig a hole through the bottom and kill all my fish. Not only that but my tank will probably last 10 or more years and a pool only last about 5 if you take good care of it. You could also use this tank year round whereas a pool should be put in in the winter. If I insulate the tank I may be able to raise trout in the winter and catfish in the summer. Its all an experiment at this time. More as it develops.
#7 Guest_Newt_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 01:18 AM
That epoxy paint may well be the most expensive part of the whole project.
#8 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 01:35 AM
Epoxy paint is expensive $57.00 a gallon and $54.00 a gallon for primer form Aquatic ecosystems (www.aquticeco.com)
so I will be looking for other options to fill this part of the project. I have seen other epoxy paints an if you wipe the steel with a kind of acid ( I cant remember which but I have a friend that has some) I don't think you need the primer. On the other hand I probably don't need to paint the steel at all because good galvanized steel last a long time anyway.
#9 Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 09:34 AM
The forum staff wish it to be known that they have nothing to do with me, and they claim all ignorance of my alleged lawbreaking activities, and would not condone them if they did know, and they would kick me off the forum if I didn't know where they lived and would surely come after their fishes.
#10 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 01:09 PM
#11 Guest_Skipjack_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 09:21 PM
A three foot tall pool with 3000 gallons has no more outward pressure than a three foot tall aquarium with any given gallonage. Gallons have nothing to do with the outward pressure, Only altitude affects it.
#12 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 09:37 PM
I have a fantastic book by Gene Logsdon called "Getting food from Water" It covers home scale aquaculture, including a chapter about raising bullheads in a 55 gallon drum, fed solely on earthworms. See if you can find it on Amazon. If you cannot locate it, send me a PM, maybe I could lend it out.
A three foot tall pool with 3000 gallons has no more outward pressure than a three foot tall aquarium with any given gallonage. Gallons have nothing to do with the outward pressure, Only altitude affects it.
I have the book you are talking about. Its a great book. I think I have read the whole thing more than three times. My wife thinks I am nuts, but she says she would rather have fish than goats which is what I was planning before. The catfish in the barrel part was part of my inspiration for my designs. I also enjoyed the part about raising 1000 pounds of trout in a pool like the one I am building. I just don't have that much water so catfish is a better fish. I would raise Tilapia if I could (illegal in CA.) because they don't need to be fed. All you have to do is put a pair of them in a pond with a lot of algae and you get lots of fish. I know Tilapia isn't a native but they are good for aquaculture. If anyone out there is considering doing a similar project then you should think about Tilapia as a possibility if they are legal in your state.
I thought the catfish were channel cats that he raised in the drum. Doesn't really matter but they do grow more meat for a given body weight than bullheads.
#13 Guest_teleost_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 09:38 PM
A three foot tall pool with 3000 gallons has no more outward pressure than a three foot tall aquarium with any given gallonage. Gallons have nothing to do with the outward pressure
Indeed depth is really the issue when constructing tanks of any type. My point about the gallonage/weight is the energy stored behind 0.0239" sheet steel. As with the kiddie pools without a turned lip, they easily collapse. The thought of a youngster kicking the side of that tank to see what happens and having a 3300 gallon surprise might be particularly unhealthy.
To steal a line from Bruce...Just sayin'
#14 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 13 February 2008 - 10:06 PM
#15 Guest_nativecajun_*
Posted 15 February 2008 - 09:18 AM
I am also going to dig out the tank at the end of the year and add it to my garden beds that along with the leavings from the worm will make just about the best garden you could want. Using a shovel in a pool is not a good idea but it wont hurt my tank. I am planing to build the bottom slightly conical with a drain in the center to improve the cleaning of the tank. I thought of burying the tank but I'm afraid that the dirt may decrease the life span of the tank walls.
Epoxy paint is expensive $57.00 a gallon and $54.00 a gallon for primer form Aquatic ecosystems (www.aquticeco.com)
so I will be looking for other options to fill this part of the project. I have seen other epoxy paints an if you wipe the steel with a kind of acid ( I cant remember which but I have a friend that has some) I don't think you need the primer. On the other hand I probably don't need to paint the steel at all because good galvanized steel last a long time anyway.
I used to serve as Maintaince forman for a forty thousand sq foot printing plant. I took over the Job from a fine Finish fellow who was retiring. He to would use this acid. I do not know the name either but the use he had for it was to etch the galvanizing away to make it suitable for sweating together. "solder" ?spelling. This may not be the same acid you speak of but any way I would certainly do some research before I used any type of acid on galvanized material because it may just to that " take away the galvanizing which will make you tank erode/corode away much more rapidly". Of course the epoxy will decrease that rate of eroding but just seems to me that a primer would be better.
Hope this helps even though I do not have the technical names for the acids.
Good luck and I look forward to some photos,
Daniel
#16 Guest_BassNut144_*
Posted 15 February 2008 - 01:16 PM
Tim
#17 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 15 February 2008 - 01:37 PM
#18 Guest_machineman_*
Posted 16 February 2008 - 11:30 AM
#19 Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Posted 16 February 2008 - 11:57 AM
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