NC distribution map for 3 darter species

I put this together using google maps and NC DWQ data posted here. Markers are color coded by species: Etheostoma collis is blue, E. fusiforme is red, and E. serrifer is green. The map isn't as interactive as I'd like and it dropped all but one marker for any sympatric sites, but it should come in handy now that I'm looking to collect some Swamp Darters. It's a little slow, too. Let me know what you think.

Now I'm wondering about the relationships behind the distribution. Carolina and Sawcheeks are placed in the same subgenus (Hololepis), while Swamps are in Boleichthys, right? Are the hololepsids an example of taxa that segregate along the fall zone? Are the subgenera even valid?

I'd also be interested in any advice you might want to post about collecting Swamps and Sawcheeks. I'm looking to make a run at several of the nearest sites and either seine with friends or do some solo dipnetting.

Kinda neat map. I would say the extreme western NC record for fusiforme is in error. The fall line does seem to be a pretty obvious line of segregation for many darter species along the Atlantic coast.

Kinda neat map. I would say the extreme western NC record for fusiforme is in error. The fall line does seem to be a pretty obvious line of segregation for many darter species along the Atlantic coast.

Thanks for the feedback. According to the Rohde et al book, E. fusiforme has been introduced into the (I think) Pee Dee basin. There's also a mention in this AC article. I can look it up when I get home, if you're interested.

Thanks for the feedback. According to the Rohde et al book, E. fusiforme has been introduced into the (I think) Pee Dee basin. There's also a mention in this AC article. I can look it up when I get home, if you're interested.

Wait -- here we go. USGS says the Pee Dee is within the native range, but further west they are introduced. This may contradict Rohde, I'll have to check.

Yeah I ment to say 'or introduced' so an actual reference to it makes sense.

Yeah I ment to say 'or introduced' so an actual reference to it makes sense.

Since I am sitting at home, really don't know what I said what back in 1994 was based on but what I vaguely recall is that someone (Alvin Braswell??) reported collecting E. fusiforme near Asheville, an obvious introduction. Recently, we collected swamp darters in upstate SC in obvious collis habitat and Clemson and SC DNR folks collected swamp darters in tribs of lake Hartwell - collis habitat. So, where you collect doesn't matter much any more. And the Hololepis vs Boelichthys (spelling?) doesn't really matter. They are all in the same group. My 2 cents.

Fritz

Yeah I ment to say 'or introduced' so an actual reference to it makes sense.

You are correct, the marker out by Asheville is introduced. Interestingly, there is an isolated population just east of Gastonia (solidly in the Catawba basin -- I don't know where I got Pee Dee from) that is native according to both USGS and Rohde et al.

Of course, I'm just borrowing NCDWQ data. I don't expect perfect coverage by any means.

Since I am sitting at home, really don't know what I said what back in 1994 was based on but what I vaguely recall is that someone (Alvin Braswell??) reported collecting E. fusiforme near Asheville, an obvious introduction. Recently, we collected swamp darters in upstate SC in obvious collis habitat and Clemson and SC DNR folks collected swamp darters in tribs of lake Hartwell - collis habitat. So, where you collect doesn't matter much any more. And the Hololepis vs Boelichthys (spelling?) doesn't really matter. They are all in the same group. My 2 cents.

Fritz

I agree completely -- while the fall line may have segregated many species historically, human activity is certainly muddying the situation. Some of my current (undergrad) work revolves around this same effect in Cricket Frogs. It's not entirely clear in that case whether the ranges are changing or were not clearly understood in the past (or both). Are collis absent from the western SC fusiforme sites you mention?

The USGS has references for the far western population dating back to 1950. If I happen to see Alvin at the museum tomorrow I'll try to ask him.

And sorry to mis-paraphrase you, Fritz. There is no contradiction between any of the sources I mentioned -- just me mis-remembering them.

I'm glad you mentioned the non native population of swamp darters in the French Broad System

Bat Fork is small stream in East Flat Rock and Hendersonville that would have the kind of habitat for introduced swampies

I'm glad you mentioned the non native population of swamp darters in the French Broad System

Bat Fork is small stream in East Flat Rock and Hendersonville that would have the kind of habitat for introduced swampies

Does anyone know how widespread E. fusiforme is in the French Broad? They have been established there for quite a while - are they really as widespread in the basin as USGS indicates?

 fusiforme_frenchbroad.jpg   117.33KB   3 downloads

Does anyone know how widespread E. fusiforme is in the French Broad? They have been established there for quite a while - are they really as widespread in the basin as USGS indicates?

 fusiforme_frenchbroad.jpg   117.33KB   3 downloads

Menhinick (1991) shows 6 localities in the FBR.

We did find collis and fusiforme sympatric at one of the sites in the Saluda system in SC.

Yeah USGS just makes the entire HUC 8 that color regardless if it is one dot or a thousand, so keep that in mind. Their maps don't really indicated how widespread they are within a watershed.

I had to provide a little info a week ago and went to the NAIS website and just did a queery for freshwater fish introduced via baitbucket and boy would you be surprised how long the list is once you get beyond the obvious game fish.

NC-DWQ has fish data for many French Broad tribs from 1993 to 2006.
In all those samples they only reported one E.fusiforme, in Bat Fork, Henderson Co, June 2002.
Of course they're probably not focusing on swampy-type streams, atypical for that basin.
We might catch E.fusiforme, E. serrifer, or both at Rhodes Pond on our March 29 Raleigh Aquar Soc field trip.
Hope you can make it Mette.

Yeah USGS just makes the entire HUC 8 that color regardless if it is one dot or a thousand, so keep that in mind. Their maps don't really indicated how widespread they are within a watershed.

I had to provide a little info a week ago and went to the NAIS website and just did a queery for freshwater fish introduced via baitbucket and boy would you be surprised how long the list is once you get beyond the obvious game fish.

Yeah USGS just makes the entire HUC 8 that color regardless if it is one dot or a thousand, so keep that in mind. Their maps don't really indicated how widespread they are within a watershed.

I had to provide a little info a week ago and went to the NAIS website and just did a queery for freshwater fish introduced via baitbucket and boy would you be surprised how long the list is once you get beyond the obvious game fish.

That's just what I was wondering -- thanks. Can you provide any details on that baitbucket query? Sounds like a great way to get real depressed.

Menhinick (1991) shows 6 localities in the FBR.

We did find collis and fusiforme sympatric at one of the sites in the Saluda system in SC.

I glanced at Menhinick and the big Lee et al book yesterday after reading your post -- they more or less agree on the number of sites in the FBR. Heck, they probably are referencing the same specimens.

Is there any reason to not to believe that fusiforme above Lake Murray (that's where we're talking about, right?) is introduced? I'm concerned about introductions displacing collis, but on the other hand their native ranges come together on the fall line and fusiforme-serrifer sympatry seems to be somewhat common. Is is time to ring the alarm?

NC-DWQ has fish data for many French Broad tribs from 1993 to 2006.
In all those samples they only reported one E.fusiforme, in Bat Fork, Henderson Co, June 2002.
Of course they're probably not focusing on swampy-type streams, atypical for that basin.
We might catch E.fusiforme, E. serrifer, or both at Rhodes Pond on our March 29 Raleigh Aquar Soc field trip.
Hope you can make it Mette.

I understand the DWQ samples are less than comprehensive for most water bodies, thanks for the full story on this instance. I think the bottom line is that this data is a less than ideal representation of ranges, but it sure is easy to convert into code for the map generator. Pretty much cut and paste. I also think the google maps format has some real advantages over things like ArcGIS for hobbyists despite the lack of nuance in this case.

As for the RAS trip, It's on my calendar. Thanks again for the invite.

As for the RAS trip, It's on my calendar. Thanks again for the invite.

I believe the RAS trip is Feb not March.

I believe the RAS trip is Feb not March.

Good eye, you are correct. That's 9 days, everybody.

That's just what I was wondering -- thanks. Can you provide any details on that baitbucket query? Sounds like a great way to get real depressed.
I glanced at Menhinick and the big Lee et al book yesterday after reading your post -- they more or less agree on the number of sites in the FBR. Heck, they probably are referencing the same specimens.

Is there any reason to not to believe that fusiforme above Lake Murray (that's where we're talking about, right?) is introduced? I'm concerned about introductions displacing collis, but on the other hand their native ranges come together on the fall line and fusiforme-serrifer sympatry seems to be somewhat common. Is is time to ring the alarm?

We also have a record from Lake Hartwell. Bait bucket in the Saluda??? I don't know but since I'm not a fisherman, don't where the source of the bait might be. Are darters present in stores that sell bait?? I had perhaps naively believed them to sell golden shiner. If Dustin or Chip are reading this, perhaps they can provide input.

I also think the google maps format has some real advantages over things like ArcGIS for hobbyists despite the lack of nuance in this case.

You mean like free versus an ton of money?

Um the queery was pretty simple. I just went to the USGS NAIS database and selected freshwater fish and the vector for introduction. Alot of game fish to weed through but you'd be surprised, likethe number of killies.

I would say swamps would be highly probable in bait stores for the same reason they are found in alot of pet stores with ghost shrimp.