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Stripping milt from a male sunfish?

Started by Guest_Gambusia_* , Mar 23 2008 02:17 PM

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24 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 02:17 PM

How would one safely and gently get milt out of a male warmouth sunfish to be mixed with largemouth bass eggs?

Thanks

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#2 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 05:09 PM

How would one safely and gently get milt out of a male warmouth sunfish to be mixed with largemouth bass eggs?

Thanks

If he is good and ripe, then squeezing him like you do a female for eggs will do. Make certain you express the urine before collecting the semen. I collect the semen using either a pipet or pipet tip attached to a siphon. Former method requires two people. You will find the volume of semen is very low so you will need to extend / dilute it with extending solution. I use a 0.9% NaCl solution made from distilled water. It is often best to aspirate semen directly into a pipet with the extender. Ultimately the volume of semen should be diluted 10-fold.

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#3 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 05:12 PM

The best way is to show him some pictures of cute female warmouths in suggestive poses.

But seriously, a transgeneric hybrid? I suppose the obvious question is "why", but then the obvious answer is "because it would be cool!" So I won't pose the question. But as long as you are experimenting, why not try a gar x bowfin - something like that.

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#4 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:04 PM

If I took the eggs and put them in the tank with the warmouth male would he fertilize them himself or not?

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#5 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:14 PM

If I took the eggs and put them in the tank with the warmouth male would he fertilize them himself or not?

No. You will have to mix the eggs and sperm yourself. Have you ever seen sunfish or bass spawn? It is likely your biggest hurdle will be the acquisition of quality eggs from the bass. Even when that is done you will have very low survival of your hybrids. I can get more haploid and gynogenic animals to hatch that such a cross. Your losses of embryos will be so high they will likely bring down even their viable siblings.

Maybe you should consider the reciprical cross. Warmouth as mother and bass as father.

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#6 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:14 PM

I'm going to guess he'd be more likely to eat them than fertilize them.

*EDIT* Sorry, centrarchid got there ahead of me.

Edited by Newt, 23 March 2008 - 07:15 PM.

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#7 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 08:08 AM

Have you ever seen sunfish or bass spawn?

Yes.

How would the reciprocal cross be better?

The eggs from the warmouth are better than the bass eggs?

Thanks

Edited by Gambusia, 24 March 2008 - 08:10 AM.

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#8 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:01 AM

Yes.
How would the reciprocal cross be better?

The eggs from the warmouth are better than the bass eggs?

Thanks

The eggs released from female have a very limited time after exposure to water that the will allow sperm, therefore mixing of gametes likely best before addition of water. You will end up mixing everything in bowl using what is called the dry method.

Reciprocal cross would use eggs from a species that is more readily available unless you have a bass hatchery. I have used warmouth as a sire several times and had a consistent problem, very low viability. The recip is not so bad. The down side is that warmouth eggs are smaller resulting in a smaller first feeding larvae that is already ready delicate, more so than a strait warmouth. The papers you may or may not have seen describing intergeneric hybrids involving largemouth bass are reported as half one species and half another. I very strongly suspect they are in reality 2/3 one and 1/3 the other as the half and half hybrid may not be viable. I may try to create some myself this spring to investigate.

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#9 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:04 PM

Thanks

But it would be much easier for me to get a female largemouth than warmouth.

Hence why I thought going with a female bass would be better

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#10 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:20 PM

Thanks

But it would be much easier for me to get a female largemouth than warmouth.

Hence why I thought going with a female bass would be better

How will you stage eggs to determine when they ready to be stripped from the female bass ans fertilized? Will you have multiple female bass in the event you do not get it right every time?

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#11 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:30 PM

No

I was going to go fishing until I caught a female bass that produced clear fertile eggs and then take her back and strip her.

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#12 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:35 PM

Plan is this:

Obtain female with ripe eggs from a local water body.

Obtain milt from male warmouth currently in my 75 gallon tank

Mix two by hand and fertilize.

Put eggs in 10 gallon hatching tank

When eggs hatch and fry are free swimming transfer them to outside tub with fry food (zooplankton, green water, ect)

Frequent partial water changes

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#13 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:37 PM

Plan is this:

Obtain female with ripe eggs from a local water body.

Obtain milt from male warmouth currently in my 75 gallon tank

Mix two by hand and fertilize.

Put eggs in 10 gallon hatching tank

When eggs hatch and fry are free swimming transfer them to outside tub with fry food (zooplankton, green water, ect)

Frequent partial water changes

How will you know if bass eggs are ready / ripe?

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#14 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:41 PM

I have been told if largemouth bass eggs are clear, they are ripe and ready.

Is that true?

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#15 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:46 PM

I have been told if largemouth bass eggs are clear, they are ripe and ready.

Is that true?

Generally yes, but it takes practice to discern.

How will you collect a ripe female bass? Ripe and ready females not likely to be interested in taking lure. The window for ripe eggs is on the order of ours.

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#16 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:54 PM

If one doesn't bite, one doesn't bite.

I suppose I could catch one pre spawn and try to condition it.

But I doubt that will work

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#17 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:00 PM

If one doesn't bite, one doesn't bite.

I suppose I could catch one pre spawn and try to condition it.

But I doubt that will work

Two ways I have gotten viable bass eggs.

1) Catch a nearly ripe female and use intramuscular hormne injections and frequently strip eggs to check for ripeness.

2) Find courting pair, sit on your keaster, watch for vent rubbing, catch the female once eggs begin to flow, then strip her of eggs manually. Got location where you can observe and legally net an adult bass while it is trying to get jiggy?

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#18 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:05 PM

Observe?

Yes

Legally net?

No

Edited by Gambusia, 24 March 2008 - 10:06 PM.

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#19 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:08 PM

Observe?

Yes

Legally net?

No

A male bass stays ripe much longer than female (potentially year round). A sunfish female can be easily conditioned and induced to spawn in an aquarium setting allowing stripping her of eggs once she commits to spawning.

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#20 Guest_Gambusia_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:11 PM

What about in power plant lakes where it stays warm year around?

Do female bass have ripe eggs longer?

A lake near me stays warm to hot constantly.

Thanks