Dollar x Longear ?

Has anyone had any experiences with Dollar x Longear hybids, either on purpose in aquaria or wild caught fish?

Rick

Has anyone had any experiences with Dollar x Longear hybids, either on purpose in aquaria or wild caught fish?

Rick

Not yet but going to very soon.

Will be attempting to cross central longear with sympatric western dollar sunfish.

We have had multiple spawnings where a female had a choice between central longear or western dollar and so far females have gone only to conspecific males. Male courtship patterns very very different despite similar color patterns.

Look forward to the results. I have a Western Dollar male that I may set up with a local female longear this summer.

Rick

Look forward to the results. I have a Western Dollar male that I may set up with a local female longear this summer.

Rick

Will you be rearing them indoors?

Yes. If I have time. I have the male dollar in a 100 gal tank at school where I teach and I thought I might collect a female later in the spring and see what happens. I've spawned and raised longears before, but not dollars. I also have (hopefully) a pair of Kansas longears I've been growing up for almost two years and I may try those as well this summer. The male dollar is in a tank that is full of green water and I was hoping if I get a spawn in there that food would give the young a good head start. I love both species. The dollars are just great fish and will eat anything you throw at them. The longears drive me crazy they are such picky eaters. They would rather die than eat a worm. If you could get a fish the size and eating habits of a dollar with longear colors....now that would be a fish!

Rick

Ha. I thought I was the only one that couldn't get my longear to eat worms.

Ha. I thought I was the only one that couldn't get my longear to eat worms.

At one time I had the longears eating HBH softbites with krill. Even then they would make me drop the pellets in one at a time and wait until they were ready between pellets! Now they are on frozen krill. They eat this pretty good, but it would be expensive as they get older and larger. Turn their noses up at regular shrimp. Maybe I'm just not letting them get hungry enough!

Rick

Rick,

So you are using the sunfishes as a teaching tool? If so excellent. Making someting new can such as a hybrid can interest a broader audience and expose students to the concept of barriers to interspecies hybridization and how it works.

Rick,

So you are using the sunfishes as a teaching tool? If so excellent. Making someting new can such as a hybrid can interest a broader audience and expose students to the concept of barriers to interspecies hybridization and how it works.

Actually, I was just curious about this particular combination. I do often use local native fish in my lectures in population biology.

Rick

If you could get a fish the size and eating habits of a dollar with longear colors....now that would be a fish!

Rick

Where are your dollar sunfish from? The coloration of my western dollars compare favorably to any population of longear I have encountered excepting some of those in the extreme southern part of the latter's range.

Where are your dollar sunfish from? The coloration of my western dollars compare favorably to any population of longear I have encountered excepting some of those in the extreme southern part of the latter's range.

I believe they came from the Saline River drainage in southern Arkansas. They are really nice fish, especially the big dominant male with his many spangels...but no where even near the intensity of blues, reds, orange, and green I have seen on the longears. I'll hunt up a couple of photos when I get home this evening. You can check out one of my local longears on Mark Binkley's site (www.jonahsaquarium.com). That male came from a TVA impoundment lake. There are some over in the Clinch River that get much larger and will absolutely blow you away with bright colors during the breeding season.

By the way, how long do Dollar Sunfish eggs take to hatch?

Rick

By the way, how long do Dollar Sunfish eggs take to hatch?

Time to hatch is 32 to 40 h post-fertilization. Usually more middle of range. Brood we monitored a couple weeks ago was incubated at 22 C and started hatching about 35 h post-fertilization and was finished by 38 h. Lower temperatures increase time and warmer temperatures decrease time. Quality offspring comes from lower end of range.

Well, got busy and had to teach this summer so I never got around to setting up the Dollars or a Dollar x Longear cross. Still have the pair of Dollars (I've had them for 3 years this fall. These are F1's from Bruce Scott in Idaho). Easiest sunfish to care for I've ever had. As we get towards the end of this semester I may try again to spawn the Dollars. They are both in 100 gal tanks at school right now (many students now know about the dollar and longear sunfish now for sure...even had questions on the general bio exams). I would like to spawn them in a smaller tank (10 or 20 ga ?). What would be the best sequence of events to follow? The female is already sassy and fat with eggs on and off).

Also, Centrarchid, was wondering if you ever got any Dollar x Central Longear hybrids and how did they look and behave? I was originally thinking that if you could get the brilliant, vivid colors (reds and blues) of a Central Longear and the small size of a Western Dollar you would have a nice fish. But after viewing a lot of photos and reading posts here, it seems likely that there may already be local populations of Longears with those characteristics.

Rick

Also, Centrarchid, was wondering if you ever got any Dollar x Central Longear hybrids and how did they look and behave? I was originally thinking that if you could get the brilliant, vivid colors (reds and blues) of a Central Longear and the small size of a Western Dollar you would have a nice fish. But after viewing a lot of photos and reading posts here, it seems likely that there may already be local populations of Longears with those characteristics.

Rick

We were just playing around this summer with attempts. Both hybrids broods failed to yeild viable larvae at swimmup. First brood failed to hatch. Female dollar may not have had good eggs. Second batch hatched but lost before swimmup (we made mistake of feeding parental male and he dirtied his nest).

Harvest season now over so emphasis will be shifted indoors. We have too ripe and ready female dollars that will be bred to conspecific males. Once they get a few egg / embryoss into the nest we will manually strip some eggs and fertilize with sperm from a male central longear derived from the St. Francis River system of southern Missouri. Female dollars also derived from same river system. We do know eggs of dollars are smaller than those produced by similar sized central longear. We will raise about ten or so to adult size over winter to see how they look. As for color "patterns" yes they are very similar but the western dollar is more intensely pigmented with sharper transitions from one color to another than any longears with which I am familiar.

I can give you the play-by-play process we use to spawn dollars in a twenty gallon tank over the coming days.

Edited by centrarchid, 26 October 2008 - 09:36 AM.

Today at 11:00 am around 50 longear sunfish eggs were expresed from a spawning female onto a petri dish then manualy fertilized with milt from a western dollar male. Last look at eggs under microscope showed over 90% of eggs where dividing. Eggs placed in a static 10g aquarium with aeration for incubation. Cross was made in order to test viability of hybrid offspring. We will attempt to raise a few to adult size.


Will post updates

Edited by basssmaster, 12 December 2008 - 01:49 PM.

Today at 11:00 am around 50 longear sunfish eggs were expresed from a spawning female onto a petri dish then manualy fertilized with milt from a western dollar male. Last look at eggs under microscope showed over 90% of eggs where dividing. Eggs placed in a static 10g aquarium with aeration for incubation. Cross was made in order to test viability of hybrid offspring. We will attempt to raise a few to adult size.


Will post updates

Thanks for the update. Will be interesting to follow this experiment.

Rick

Longear x Western Dollar embryos 24 hours post fertilization incubated at 20.4 C. All but two of approximately 50 developing.



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So far...so good.

Although the few un-fertilized eggs grew fungus and rotifers invaded the brood over 75% hatched. 50 eggs was an underestimate number was closer to 100. Over 70 pro-larvae were removed from the un hatched eggs. Some pro-larvae did not hatch till 48hrs post fertilization, majority hatched around 40hrs.

pro-Larvae at 1.6x
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3.2x
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Edited by basssmaster, 14 December 2008 - 12:50 PM.

Sounds like an American Currents article to me.

Not yet but going to very soon.

Will be attempting to cross central longear with sympatric western dollar sunfish.

We have had multiple spawnings where a female had a choice between central longear or western dollar and so far females have gone only to conspecific males. Male courtship patterns very very different despite similar color patterns.