Yesterday while sampling, I came across Fundulus diaphanus at Arcola Estuary in Lake County Ohio.
On the website: http://ohiodnr.com/w...05/Default.aspx
It states that Western banded killifish Fundulus diaphanus menona is endangered in Ohio, but the link to the species page (http://www.dnr.state...84/Default.aspx) states :"The Western banded killifish is native to Ohio, but is only found in the northwest portion of the state. Specifically, it's found in the Portage River drainage in Wood County and in Miller Blue Hole in Sandusky County." Since I am in Northeast Ohio what am I catching and is it endangered? Sorry no pics but I'm certain that it is Fundulus diaphanus is it an isolated population or possibly a different subspecies that is not endangered?
I would really like to collect some to keep with my other killies but I won't until i find out if they are legal. I contacted ODNR but they have not replied.
There are plenty of Ohioans on this forum that have more knowledge than i do on the species here.
Thanks
Tom
Are the killies I located endangered?
Started by
Guest_tglassburner_*
, Apr 28 2008 04:07 PM
18 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 28 April 2008 - 04:33 PM
You're most likely catching eastern banded killifish Tom. If they're westerns, then they're a brand spankin' new unknown population and way outside of the known range.
How many lateral bars do they have? Or is it turbid and they're washed out?
Actually, that's a way to tell too... IF it's turbid and there's a ton of them, they're most likely easterns
A hand pic would be helpful. I would default to what DNR says regardless. They're going to be sick of us before too long lol.
Todd
How many lateral bars do they have? Or is it turbid and they're washed out?
Actually, that's a way to tell too... IF it's turbid and there's a ton of them, they're most likely easterns
A hand pic would be helpful. I would default to what DNR says regardless. They're going to be sick of us before too long lol.
Todd
#3
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Posted 28 April 2008 - 04:38 PM
I suspect that we stumbled upon a population that ODNR doesn't know about. I guess they do now, since you contacted them.
On the other hand, NatureServe lists banded killifish as being currently present in the Ashtabula-Chagrin watershed. If NatureServe knows they are there, it seems reasonable to think that ODNR does also. There are two subspecies of banded killifish. Perhaps the western (and Ohio endangered) subspecies only exists in Wood and Sandusky Counties, and we found the eastern subspecies in Lake County. I think a little more research is in order when I get home tonight.
On the other hand, NatureServe lists banded killifish as being currently present in the Ashtabula-Chagrin watershed. If NatureServe knows they are there, it seems reasonable to think that ODNR does also. There are two subspecies of banded killifish. Perhaps the western (and Ohio endangered) subspecies only exists in Wood and Sandusky Counties, and we found the eastern subspecies in Lake County. I think a little more research is in order when I get home tonight.
#4
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Posted 28 April 2008 - 04:40 PM
I'll try and get a pic next time I get up there, they are in the swampy reedy area that is turbid, but i would not say there are a ton of them in the 2 times ive been there in the last month I've only netted maybe 5 or 6. If anyone wants to come out this way i can take you to the exact spot where they were netted.You're most likely catching eastern banded killifish Tom. If they're westerns, then they're a brand spankin' new unknown population and way outside of the known range.
How many lateral bars do they have? Or is it turbid and they're washed out?
Actually, that's a way to tell too... IF it's turbid and there's a ton of them, they're most likely easterns
A hand pic would be helpful. I would default to what DNR says regardless. They're going to be sick of us before too long lol.
Todd
I'll probably bet that you're right about them being easterns.
-Tom
#5
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Posted 28 April 2008 - 04:41 PM
Thats precisely why I asked here.I suspect that we stumbled upon a population that ODNR doesn't know about. I guess they do now, since you contacted them.
On the other hand, NatureServe lists banded killifish as being currently present in the Ashtabula-Chagrin watershed. If NatureServe knows they are there, it seems reasonable to think that ODNR does also. There are two subspecies of banded killifish. Perhaps the western (and Ohio endangered) subspecies only exists in Wood and Sandusky Counties, and we found the eastern subspecies in Lake County. I think a little more research is in order when I get home tonight.
#6
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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:29 PM
The references I have seem to disagree as to where the boundary between eastern, western, and intergrades are. Nevertheless, based on the description in Peterson's Field Guide, I think they are easterns. The westerns (F. diaphanus menona) have "many brown spots on back and upper side". These fish did not have spots! The description of easterns (F. diaphanus diaphanus), with "dusky cross hatching on back and side", sounds more like these fish. So I am convinced that they are easterns.
#8
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Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:29 PM
There really aren't any intergrades in Ohio. F.d. diaphanus wasn't found in Ohio historically and F. d. menona was only found as far east as the Erie Islands. The Central Basin probably wasn't productive enough, nor were the river mouths once you get into the Ohio Black Shale (Vermillion R eastward).
I'm 99.9% certain it's diaphanus. It would be really crazy for it to be menona. REALLY crazy.
But then again, if you put a bunch of both into a bucket, I couldn't tell you which were which without looking at a bunch of each, and maybe not even then. They're cool and all, but I don't know if they're cool enough to be worth any potential fuss. Banded killifish and pirate perch from Michigan were the first two species I scratched off my list with the new rules
Todd "I am still pissed about giving up the bluebreasts I drove to legally and ethically get from the Cumberland" Crail
I'm 99.9% certain it's diaphanus. It would be really crazy for it to be menona. REALLY crazy.
But then again, if you put a bunch of both into a bucket, I couldn't tell you which were which without looking at a bunch of each, and maybe not even then. They're cool and all, but I don't know if they're cool enough to be worth any potential fuss. Banded killifish and pirate perch from Michigan were the first two species I scratched off my list with the new rules
Todd "I am still pissed about giving up the bluebreasts I drove to legally and ethically get from the Cumberland" Crail
#9
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 30 April 2008 - 12:10 PM
Todd "I am still pissed about giving up the bluebreasts I drove to legally and ethically get from the Cumberland" Crail
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#15
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 07:02 AM
Thanks skipjack. I assume that also means they are illegal if I were to buy/obtain them legally from somewhere other than Ohio?
Too bad if true. I was about to post an offer to send some F. diaphanus diaphanus. They're very abundant here.
#18
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 01:27 PM
Most of the info stated is correct however the Western Banded was found historically further east but not in Lake Erie. They were historically in the Portage lakes of Akron Ohio in NE part of the state. There are no recent records for them there and anthing east of the islands in Lake erie should be introduced populations of Eastern bandeds. There are also Eastern bandeds in Pymatumming Reservoir. The easterns are a state aquatic nuisance sp. and the western is endangered, which makes them both illegal to have.
#19
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 06:14 PM
Most of the info stated is correct however the Western Banded was found historically further east but not in Lake Erie. They were historically in the Portage lakes of Akron Ohio in NE part of the state. There are no recent records for them there and anthing east of the islands in Lake erie should be introduced populations of Eastern bandeds. There are also Eastern bandeds in Pymatumming Reservoir. The easterns are a state aquatic nuisance sp. and the western is endangered, which makes them both illegal to have.
That's kind of ironic, the two subspecies, one endangered and one a nuisance.
What happens if you cross them, do they cancel each other out? Or do you get a protected nuisance?
I know, I shouldn't joke about it. No doubt the eastern subspecies was deemed a nuisance specifically to protect the western blood lines from being diluted.
Still, I have trouble wrapping my mind around the whole species - subspecies concept and those nutty lumpers and splitters that like to squable about it.
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