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One Male Rainbow Darter per Tank?

Started by Guest_minnowmizer_* , Jun 02 2008 03:53 PM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_minnowmizer_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 03:53 PM

My daughter and I had the very good fortune of capturing two nearly mature male rainbow darters and four immature females on our first outing. Apparantly our 2.5 gallon tank wasn't enough space for the two males. The larger male killed the smaller one after just one day. Everybody else is getting along fine including several shiners.

Do I need a larger tank, or is that just the way it is with male rainbow darters?

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#2 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 04:11 PM

A 2.5gallon is way too small for 6 rainbow darters especially 2 mature males. and shiners? For darters + shiners I'd recommend a 20g long at the very least. What kind of shiners are you talking about?

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#3 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 04:57 PM

Agreed. Waht drewish said is correct. 2.5 gallons is just not enough. You need a larger tank for your fish to be happier. In my opinion, only some species of killifish and pygmies can be kept in such conditions.
Shiners are active fish, they need space for swimming. In addition, there is very little bottom for the darter(s) to use. I also suggest a larger tank - you and your fish will benifit. Best to be a fish-keeper, not a fish-haver.

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#4 Guest_minnowmizer_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:42 PM

Agreed. Waht drewish said is correct. 2.5 gallons is just not enough. You need a larger tank for your fish to be happier. In my opinion, only some species of killifish and pygmies can be kept in such conditions.
Shiners are active fish, they need space for swimming. In addition, there is very little bottom for the darter(s) to use. I also suggest a larger tank - you and your fish will benifit. Best to be a fish-keeper, not a fish-haver.

Thanks everyone.

So in a 20 gallon tank, what would be a good number of darters and shiners?

Also, my darters don't seem to like frozen brine shrimp. Should I get frozen bloodworms instead?

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#5 Guest_NVCichlids_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:48 PM

I just want to clearify, they said a 20 gal L tank (30"x12"x12"). I am currently in the process of setting up a river/stream tank myself for some darters and a shiner species of somesort. You could keep more than 1 male in a 20 gal Long so long as there is ample hiding spots (i'd assume). I actually want to keep orange fin darters, but from the reading I have been doing they are similar??

I would make sure you get a 20 gallon long fish tank. the 20 gal regulars do not have enough swimming space for the darters or the shiners.

BTW about the feeding, try live brine shrimp if possible, most good fish stores have it. Blood worms (live/frozen) would be a good alternative to try, or even go back out and collect some of the small invertibrates from where you caught the fish.

i will post pictures tonight of my tank in process.

NV

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#6 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 09:31 PM

In a 20L, two males should be fine. They will have plenty of space to stay clear of one another. What kind of shiners do you have?
I would imagine a comfortable number would be 2M/4F rainbows, and 6-8 shiners (depending on size, sp, etc). Some folks may chime in and say differently, but I think once you have upgraded your tank size, you can play around and see how everything unfolds.
About feeding, my darters (snubnose and fantails) quickly excepted bloodworms. It took a few days, but what got them going was putting the worms into current of the filter or swishing your hand in the water to give them movement. If a worm stayed still or only floated, they never paid attention, but when it looked like it was wriggling they quickly grabbed them. Now, there is no trouble. Also, if you have only had them for a short period of time, they may not eat, but give it a few days, and they should eat.

Edited by UncleWillie, 02 June 2008 - 09:35 PM.

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#7 Guest_NVCichlids_*

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 10:55 PM

i posted pics of how my river tank's "current" aspect is set up here:
http://forum.nanfa.o...amp;#entry39183
maybe this will help maybe not, it is in a 20 gallon L

NV

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#8 Guest_Nightwing_*

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 09:35 PM

I have 4 males and 9 females in a 40 long(with a bunch of other fish) with no problem. Indeed, the "rock garden" they use is only about the equivalent of a 15 gallon in bottom coverage but the fish get along fine(often, the males are all in a group, oddly enough). In spring they get a bit snippy, but they then just spread out a bit(even into the driftwood and planted areas). Very little aggression even then between them.

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#9 Guest_minnowmizer_*

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 05:56 AM

I have 4 males and 9 females in a 40 long(with a bunch of other fish) with no problem. Indeed, the "rock garden" they use is only about the equivalent of a 15 gallon in bottom coverage but the fish get along fine(often, the males are all in a group, oddly enough). In spring they get a bit snippy, but they then just spread out a bit(even into the driftwood and planted areas). Very little aggression even then between them.

I know our 2.5 gallon is small, but it's still pretty hard to see the darters in there. You have to look real close. It seems a 40 gallon would camoflague them out of view.

By the way. Everybody seems to be getting along fine in there and we have 16 fish. The water pump is powerful and it keeps them moving around energetically.

I can't identify one species of an elongated shiner minnow. It has a long white stipe and a black pin stripe above and below with gorgeous lemon yellow fins. The belly is blood colored. It seems to prefer the middle strata of the tank, and the large blunt nose minnow kind of hunkers down below them.

Edited by minnowmizer, 04 June 2008 - 06:03 AM.

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#10 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 06:34 AM

To say that the tank is too small would be redundant, as it has been said a couple times already. To put it bluntly, its not a question of whether or not the pump pushes water at a high rate or that the fish swim in the fast current . You are talking about 16 fish that are at least over an inch (and will get larger) that eat, crap and pea...and since you WILL have to feed heavily to get the darters enough food with the shiners and other minnows in there since they are aggressivwe feeders. Unless you are doing a 25-50% daily water change they WILL foul the water very quickly. Daily water changes, especially with public water, are bad for your fish. When the ammonia spikes from overpacking your tank the fish will first start twitching and swimming erratically, then you may notice internal hemoraging and bent spines, then they will die. You need a bigger tank or fewer fish.

Edit: To be able to see the darters well is a matter of setting up the tank for good display. focusing the outlet of a powerhead at pebbles and stones, etc. that you can easlily see will help to put the darters in view as they will choose to stay in the current more often than not.

Edited by scottefontay, 04 June 2008 - 06:39 AM.

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#11 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:03 AM

Minnowmizer, I'm thinking that the tank must be larger than you think. Really because with 16 fish, they would really look very crowded to just about anyone. Can you measure the dimensions of the tank (length, width, height)?

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#12 Guest_minnowmizer_*

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:29 AM

Minnowmizer, I'm thinking that the tank must be larger than you think. Really because with 16 fish, they would really look very crowded to just about anyone. Can you measure the dimensions of the tank (length, width, height)?

Here's a picture of my tank with minnows included. The male darter hides under the rock:

group2.jpg 44.02KB 4 downloads

Here's the male rainbow with a couple of immature females resting on a sandstone rock. He seems quite content to hang out in his cave:

rainbow_male_and_2_females.jpg 25.28KB 3 downloads

The male by himself:

rainbow1.jpg 16.62KB 3 downloads

Edited by minnowmizer, 04 June 2008 - 10:32 AM.

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#13 Guest_killier_*

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 04:03 PM

TN. Red bellied Dace
Blacknose(longnose?) dace
rainbow darters
is what I see

TN red bellies get 2-3 and half inches long
Blacknose dace get 3-4 inches and quite "stocky"
Longnose dace get 4-5 inches long
rainbow darters get 2-3 inches long
with a tank like that I would say a 20 gallon would work however I might shoot for a 30long or a 55reg. the advantage of a 30 long or the 55 is the fact that if you want more fish you have room and the tank would be more stable (as in water conditions)

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#14 Guest_dafrimpster_*

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 06:25 PM

I have four rainbow darters in my tank. They equate me with food. So when I walk up to the tank they come out and show themselves. My tank is 180 gallons with lots of places for them to hide. I think if they had more room they might feel more secure and show themselves more. I'm not saying go out and buy a 180g tank. but I think both you and the fish will have a better experience if you give them more room say a 20g long.

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#15 Guest_Nightwing_*

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:43 PM

I know our 2.5 gallon is small, but it's still pretty hard to see the darters in there. You have to look real close. It seems a 40 gallon would camoflague them out of view.

By the way. Everybody seems to be getting along fine in there and we have 16 fish. The water pump is powerful and it keeps them moving around energetically.

I can't identify one species of an elongated shiner minnow. It has a long white stipe and a black pin stripe above and below with gorgeous lemon yellow fins. The belly is blood colored. It seems to prefer the middle strata of the tank, and the large blunt nose minnow kind of hunkers down below them.

I think just the opposite is the effect..a tiny tank such as yours likely has them always on edge and spooky. My darters are very curious and gregarious, and are out in the open most of the time. Indeed, if I am in sight of the tank they(and about 30 other fish) are usually swimming up and down along the front glass, and if I stick even a finger into the tank, they will swim all the way to the surface to investigate it. I have a very mixed community of fish, and to date they all mix and seem to get along well(well..other then a poor bluefin killie who proved to be a bit on the small side, and ended up eaten by a mud minnow!).

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#16 Guest_rockbassbud5_*

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 09:25 AM

I think just the opposite is the effect..a tiny tank such as yours likely has them always on edge and spooky. My darters are very curious and gregarious, and are out in the open most of the time. Indeed, if I am in sight of the tank they(and about 30 other fish) are usually swimming up and down along the front glass, and if I stick even a finger into the tank, they will swim all the way to the surface to investigate it. I have a very mixed community of fish, and to date they all mix and seem to get along well(well..other then a poor bluefin killie who proved to be a bit on the small side, and ended up eaten by a mud minnow!).

I currently have about 10 rainbow darters in a 10g tank. I have 4 males and 6 females. I also have two blackside darters and a trio of banded killifish. This is just a temporary set up as i am soon about to get at least a 20g tank to put all of these guys in. I just wanted to say that I have never had any problems with my males being aggressive. I do have plenty of rockwork and fairly strong flow. I also however have to do water changes quite often due to the oversized bioload for this size of tank. I strongly agree with the others because 2.5 gallons for 16 fish is way too small. Your water is already looking slightly cloudy btw. You definatly need to consider a larger set-up.

Edited by rockbassbud5, 07 June 2008 - 09:26 AM.

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#17 Guest_JohnO_*

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:23 PM

I have around 8 rainbows, along with 8 fantails, plus six creek chub and one juvenile banded sculpin in a 75 gal. They're quite visible and quite active, to the point of swimming to the top when I walk up with a cup full of frozen bloodworms. They know what that is...

No real agression, except a couple of the larger fantails can get a bit feisty from time to time. But, it's usually just a fin nip to get off of their favorite rock. I'm filtering the daylights out of the tank, with a reef filter plus a large canister filter and air stick. These are oxygen loving fish, out of a cold fast moving stream, so they really appreciate fresh air and moving water.

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#18 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 07 June 2008 - 08:55 PM

I have around 8 rainbows, along with 8 fantails, plus six creek chub and one juvenile banded sculpin in a 75 gal. They're quite visible and quite active, to the point of swimming to the top when I walk up with a cup full of frozen bloodworms. They know what that is...

No real agression, except a couple of the larger fantails can get a bit feisty from time to time. But, it's usually just a fin nip to get off of their favorite rock. I'm filtering the daylights out of the tank, with a reef filter plus a large canister filter and air stick. These are oxygen loving fish, out of a cold fast moving stream, so they really appreciate fresh air and moving water.

Not to cast doubts on you or your fish, but in my experience, creek chubs will live in a mud puddle and eat all of the other fish in the puddle... I would be very careful housing creek chubs only with similar sized fish (which can be difficult as creek chucbs can easily grow from 3 to 8 inches while you not lookin'). Don't wanna rain on your parade, but I think that combo of fish will eventually be trouble (and the rainbows will loose).

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#19 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 09:55 PM

Michael's right, creek chubs are the ultimate survivors and often do it through raw aggresion. As long as everyone's well fed there's hopefully no problem; but a six inch creek chub can do some harm to other fish.