This is the initial trip report, Michael Wolfe has pictures and a more definitive list of what we found. The trip was (mainly) to stock my 55-gallon native tank which had initially been sitting idle - (three male guppies and two comet goldfish from my wife's tank to hold the cycle).
We collected on Williamson Swamp Creek, an excellent site on state highway 24 a few miles east of Sandersville, GA. There's a brand-new bridge crossing the creek, with very wide shoulders and easy parking. We parked on the south side, next to a concrete drainage trough that allowed easy access to ground level.
The crew was Mike, his son Andrew (I hope I got it right!) and myself. I got wet first, was handed a dipnet, and started working the banks for some shrimp, while Mike and his son manned the seine and in their first scoop found a very nice selection of minnows, including one we couldn't identify. We then worked our way under the bridge, up the east branch of the creek, dipnetting and seining about 200 yards out.
Here's the (to be corrected) list of what we found:
Fish-
Yellowfin Shiner (Notropis lutipinnis)
Pteronotropis stonei
Blue-sided minnow of some variety (Mike has photos)
Blackbanded Darter (Percina nigrofasciata)
Turqoise Darter (Etheostoma inscriptum)
Pirate Perch (Aphredoderus sayanus)
Esox sp. (One example, too small to identify)
Noturus sp. (Some kinda madtom - I'd never seen any, so I have no idea what kind. Mike's got photos)
Spotted Sunfish (Lepomis punctatus) - several beautiful fish in great color
Inverts-
Freshwater clams
Freshwater mussel (two of them, we have photos of one)
Many crayfish
Shrimp (At least two species that I noticed)
Mayfly/Dragonfly nymphs
Pond Snails
Other assorted waterbugs
Wolf spiders in quantity (They made it into the dipnets from the water margin)
I brought home a nice quantity of shiners - two large yellowfin and about 8 smaller shiners, either juvenile Stonei or yellowfin, they're too small yet to tell.
Three blackbanded darters, and one turqoise, and one pirate perch. And one shrimp, who is holding eggs. Can't tell yet if they're inside or outside, or if they're fertilized - don't know much about their biology, although I hope they're fertilized, 'cause I can use some algae control.
Collecting in Middle Georgia
Started by
Guest_khudgins_*
, Jun 30 2008 09:26 AM
42 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 10:26 AM
My guess for your unkown shiner is the dusky shiner, N. cummingsae. It is typically found with the other two and appears to have a bluish stripe out of the water. The madtom is likely a speckled(N. leptacanthus), but it could be margined or tadpole. Sounds like a great trip.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 30 June 2008 - 12:35 PM
It was a great trip, I have not downloaded the photos yet, but I do have a couple of comments...
- The esox was not too small to identify... he was too elusive... got out of the seine while I was looking at other fish.
- Madtom was likely speckled (definitley not tadpole, and not quite slender enough, or marked quite right for margined)... I don't think I have pictures, as I recall, the fish flipped and I chickened out on trying to grab/catch him and I think he got away while I got a picture of my empty hand.
- The sunfish may have been misidentified by me... after getting home and looking at some books I am going to hold judgement until I post his picture. Question... do dollars have a complete white margin on the earflap? I will post a picture.
We collected on Williamson Swamp Creek, an excellent site on state highway 24 a few miles east of Sandersville, GA. There's a brand-new bridge crossing the creek, with very wide shoulders and easy parking. We parked on the south side, next to a concrete drainage trough that allowed easy access to ground level.
Esox sp. (One example, too small to identify)
Noturus sp. (Some kinda madtom - I'd never seen any, so I have no idea what kind. Mike's got photos)
Spotted Sunfish (Lepomis punctatus) - several beautiful fish in great color
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#4
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:16 PM
OK. Fish First...
unidentified with a bluish color
blackside darter
yellowfin shiner
sunfish
And a few non-fish guest appearances...
Whattaya think Crail?
unidentified with a bluish color
blackside darter
yellowfin shiner
sunfish
And a few non-fish guest appearances...
Whattaya think Crail?
Attached Images
Edited by Michael Wolfe, 30 June 2008 - 08:17 PM.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#6
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:49 PM
What's keying you on that Bruce... is it the dipping sort of dashed lateral line?Dustin's prediction is right, your unidentified shiner is a dusky shiner with that blue stripe showing up when out of the water.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#9
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:27 PM
Yeah, in part it's the dipping dashed line; at first glance I thought, "telescope shiner". But of course it's not. Your specimen also has a (washed-out) relatively thick dark lateral band, a distinct caudal peduncle spot at the end of the lateral band, and dark lips, especially the upper one. I'll admit I've only seen them twice, live in the flesh, at the SC convention (with Dustin) and again in Georgia in the Chattahoochee drainage somewhere SE of Columbus.What's keying you on that Bruce... is it the dipping sort of dashed lateral line?
And I concur with Todd, "it's a mussel". My incoherent guess is a juvenile spike, but I really don't know; it's probably not a species from the Tennessee system.
#11
Guest_khudgins_*
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:59 PM
It was a great trip, I have not downloaded the photos yet, but I do have a couple of comments...
- The esox was not too small to identify... he was too elusive... got out of the seine while I was looking at other fish.
Well, I wasn't gonna say anything. ;P
#12
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 10:21 PM
I could believe bigeye chub as an ID. Or, a subadult dusky with no spawning colors and no hormonal influence for a robust body?I recall photographing Dusky shiner at the convention last year and that ain't a Dusky. The below photo is from the convention.
Maybe I have Hybopsis on the brain but the head/eye of that fish...
#13
Guest_khudgins_*
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:32 PM
Post-trip report: Day one
The shiners are adapting very well, taking flake food already. The Darters seem interested in the flake, somewhat: they notice there's food in the tank and get interested, but aren't sure where said food is at. One is taking bloodworms, the other three I haven't directly seen eat.
Pirate perch, well, he hides a lot. Can't tell if he's eating, but I am putting some food in after lights out, so we'll see. Hopefully he'll come around to eating in daylight. Silly ambush predator.
The shiners are adapting very well, taking flake food already. The Darters seem interested in the flake, somewhat: they notice there's food in the tank and get interested, but aren't sure where said food is at. One is taking bloodworms, the other three I haven't directly seen eat.
Pirate perch, well, he hides a lot. Can't tell if he's eating, but I am putting some food in after lights out, so we'll see. Hopefully he'll come around to eating in daylight. Silly ambush predator.
#14
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:21 AM
I can say with confidence that the bottom shiner is not a dusky shiner. I have no experience over there and I have no idea what it is. The head is much too long and the eye placement is wrong too. THe top fish could still be a dusky, but it's really hard to tell. The sunfish is definitely a dollar. It looks exactly like my dollars do here just before and just after they get into high color.
#15
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:27 AM
Who has Fishes of the Middle Savannah? I think Bruce is on to something with Hybopsis, but rubrifrons seems to be the Regular in them parts. It's distribution mirrors the yellowfin quite nicely.
What drainage are you guys in anyway?
There really needs to be a Georgia book, even if it's just the non-Mobile drainage species!
PS Speaking of guides, the announcement for Mussels of Alabama came out! I'll post it in the Inverts section if it's not there already. That might help to give some better edjumicated guesses on what mussel species you're looking at, although there's a bunch of endemics in Georgia, esp in the Altamaha.
Todd
What drainage are you guys in anyway?
There really needs to be a Georgia book, even if it's just the non-Mobile drainage species!
PS Speaking of guides, the announcement for Mussels of Alabama came out! I'll post it in the Inverts section if it's not there already. That might help to give some better edjumicated guesses on what mussel species you're looking at, although there's a bunch of endemics in Georgia, esp in the Altamaha.
Todd
#16
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:36 AM
My dusky shiner guesstimate was based on looking at the first shiner, whose caudal is visible but no other fins. After a good night's sleep the second shiner certainly looks better as a Hybopsis, as Todd says depending on drainage for species.
#17
Guest_khudgins_*
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:42 AM
Who has Fishes of the Middle Savannah? I think Bruce is on to something with Hybopsis, but rubrifrons seems to be the Regular in them parts. It's distribution mirrors the yellowfin quite nicely.
What drainage are you guys in anyway?
There really needs to be a Georgia book, even if it's just the non-Mobile drainage species!
PS Speaking of guides, the announcement for Mussels of Alabama came out! I'll post it in the Inverts section if it's not there already. That might help to give some better edjumicated guesses on what mussel species you're looking at, although there's a bunch of endemics in Georgia, esp in the Altamaha.
Todd
This was a tributary of the Oconee, which ultimately dumps into the Altamaha.
I wish there were a general Georgia book. I'd be one of the first in line to buy it. Mike has the Middle Savannah book - I think it might come this far west.
#19
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:41 PM
OK, trying to catch up again (darn that full time job)...
I can see the bigeye chub thing... but it is not (know where you are standing)...
And I agree with Todd on the rubifrons thing... except they are a very tan fish whenever I have seen them before, never blue, so I don't quite buy that...
There is no Georgia book... so I looked in my new Bama book... the live fish looked just like the JoeT. drawing of the weed shiner in the plates of the Bama book... but it is not (know where you are standing)...
I think Marcus is right N. hudsonius... the live fish looked a lot like the hudsonius picture in Fritz's book...
And I do have the Fishes of the Middle Savannah River Basin... the picture looks a little like the fish and has a long discussion on how similar it is to the rubifrons...
So altogether I go with Marcus's experience and Fritz's picture... based on where I was standing.
Oh, and we were in Williamson Swamp Creek, that empties into the Ogechee which goes right to the Atlantic Ocean just south of Savannah (easy mistake to make Keith, we paralleled the Oconee the whole way down there... but that last few mile east carried us in to the next drainage).
I can see the bigeye chub thing... but it is not (know where you are standing)...
And I agree with Todd on the rubifrons thing... except they are a very tan fish whenever I have seen them before, never blue, so I don't quite buy that...
There is no Georgia book... so I looked in my new Bama book... the live fish looked just like the JoeT. drawing of the weed shiner in the plates of the Bama book... but it is not (know where you are standing)...
I think Marcus is right N. hudsonius... the live fish looked a lot like the hudsonius picture in Fritz's book...
And I do have the Fishes of the Middle Savannah River Basin... the picture looks a little like the fish and has a long discussion on how similar it is to the rubifrons...
So altogether I go with Marcus's experience and Fritz's picture... based on where I was standing.
Oh, and we were in Williamson Swamp Creek, that empties into the Ogechee which goes right to the Atlantic Ocean just south of Savannah (easy mistake to make Keith, we paralleled the Oconee the whole way down there... but that last few mile east carried us in to the next drainage).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#20
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:43 PM
The sunfish is definitely a dollar. It looks exactly like my dollars do here just before and just after they get into high color.
Thanks Dustin... we didn't keep any, but I have always wanted to try those and now I know a location... seem to remember folks saying they are rather agressive (even though they are smaller)... have you been able to keep them with other fish (shiners and such)?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
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