Cycling and such

Hi

Reading some other threads have gotten me pondering about cycling in general and a new tank specifically. I have other tanks so I would just run a second filter on one of them for a few weeks prior to the new set up and take water from the other tanks were I to add a new one. But, that isn't always an option. With so many ways to cycle a tank, I was wondering what was the preferred option here. Fishless? Bio drops? Adding feeder fish?

Are some "first fish" better than others? Goldfish are reported to be messy. Is messy desirable in regards to cycling? Frogs are said to be messier, yet using frogs to cycle a tank wouldn't necessarily be a good idea would it? Thought they were an indicator species.

Also... Is there a "right" versus "wrong" way to store a used tank? I ask, because at school, the tanks are broken down each June and restarted in September. I considered keeping ours running over the summer, but with no one to check on it, the evaporation would cause the pump to run empty in a months time.

If the filter dries out, is there still bio matter waiting to be relived? Would you use a used filter, or do you think it can go "bad."

Thanks!

you can always just rinse the filter and gravel to be stored. As long as you don't sterilize the filter and gravel the bacteria will still be there when it gets wet again...

Reading some other threads have gotten me pondering about cycling in general and a new tank specifically. I have other tanks so I would just run a second filter on one of them for a few weeks prior to the new set up and take water from the other tanks were I to add a new one. But, that isn't always an option. With so many ways to cycle a tank, I was wondering what was the preferred option here. Fishless? Bio drops? Adding feeder fish?

It's been so long since I tried to cycle a tank w/o established filter media, I can't even think of other options. I just grab a handful of media, or a foam block from a tank with similar water conditions and keep my stock level very low for the first month or two.
From what I see online and in the mags, fishless is the current trend. Its advantages [IMO] are; not cruel to fish, no bugs introduced with cycle fish and no need to dispose of unwanted cycle fish. There are probably more.
The disadvantage that I see is the reliance on chemicals and test kits, neither of which I own.

Are some "first fish" better than others? Goldfish are reported to be messy. Is messy desirable in regards to cycling? Frogs are said to be messier, yet using frogs to cycle a tank wouldn't necessarily be a good idea would it? Thought they were an indicator species.

A cycle fish needs to be very hardy to withstand the stress of the changing water parameters. It also needs to be appropreate for the type of setup [ie not a tropical in a cold water tank etc]. What has worked for me is to pick the hardiest fish among the species you were planning on keeping in the tank and start there.
As to frogs, well, I've kept some aquatic frogs and I can say, first, they may be indicater species, but they're WAY more tolerent of fouled water than fish are. Second, they produce WAY more waste than fish do and it is very difficult to keep up with biological filtration without WAY more water changes.

Also... Is there a "right" versus "wrong" way to store a used tank?.

If you're refering to the "live" filter culture, the "right" way to store it is in water of the proper temp and chemistry, with aeration and a source of nitrogen for the bugs to feed on. Best bet is just add it to a tank with similar water parameters and let it run in there till you need it.

If the filter dries out, is there still bio matter waiting to be relived? Would you use a used filter, or do you think it can go "bad."

In my opinion, dried filter media would not cycle any faster than starting from scratch.
Filter media can go bad if it is stored in stagnent water full of solid waste. If it goes black and/or stinky, it's no good.

Soil-based planted tanks are instantly cycled. Even if no plants are in the tank.

I'm suspicious that the fishless cycling is mostly a product of marketing. Sure, it works, but it's an expensive way to go about things. Much less expensive methods abound.

For what it's worth, some of the independently owned fish stores will give you some old filter media for cycling if you ask them. Obviously, you only want this from a quality shop that keeps an eye out for disease and does not use store-wide filtration systems.

I'm suspicious that the fishless cycling is mostly a product of marketing. Sure, it works, but it's an expensive way to go about things. Much less expensive methods abound.

Not quite sure what type of fishless cycling you're talking about here...? The kind I'm familiar with just uses liquid ammonia dribbled into the tank to build up bacteria. Couldn't get much cheaper than that...

That said, I always just transfer some filter material, or even just gravel from an old tank. If initial stocking density is very low, I don't think there's even a problem with using brand-new gravel and filter media.

I'm thinking of the bacterial addititve type of product, like this one:
http://www.thatpetpl...950/product.web

I'm thinking of the bacterial addititve type of product, like this one:
http://www.thatpetpl...950/product.web

Ah. I was thinking just ammonia, no fish and no other additives. Here's an article:
http://www.csupomona...ms/Ammonia.html