Plants for killie tank

I want to make a heavily planted killie tank out of my 55 gallon tank (48"l x 13"w x 18"h). So far I only have some Ludwigia, Elodea, Cabomba and American vals. I need suggestions for native plants that grow well under standard lighting. I'd also like to have some that will provide spawning places for killies (incase they decide they want to breed ) and hiding places for the subsequent young, but I'm not sure if the eggs would last long enough to hatch and how many young would make it to adulthood. Anyhow, I want it to look kind of nice and lush, like this: http://www.freshwate...mages/view1.jpg

You can see pictures of my tank here: http://forum.nanfa.o...amp;#entry42696
The substrate is gravel (and a little bit of sand under it) that came out of my creek.

That tank you linked to probably has compact lighting at the very least. It is probably also using some soil based substrate if not soil itself. I also wouldn't doubt if it was using co2 with some type of fertilizer.

arnoldi has a couple of 20gL that have livebearers (cubans and least killies) and another similar tank with bluefin killies. He is using spiral compact fluorescent bulbs but only because it is cheaper that way. I believe he has soil under gravel in both tanks. He has babies out of the ying-yang with a floating moss and duckweed. He has some grass type plants on the bottom but the topwater plants are where the fry are at.

That tank you linked to probably has compact lighting at the very least. It is probably also using some soil based substrate if not soil itself. I also wouldn't doubt if it was using co2 with some type of fertilizer.

arnoldi has a couple of 20gL that have livebearers (cubans and least killies) and another similar tank with bluefin killies. He is using spiral compact fluorescent bulbs but only because it is cheaper that way. I believe he has soil under gravel in both tanks. He has babies out of the ying-yang with a floating moss and duckweed. He has some grass type plants on the bottom but the topwater plants are where the fry are at.

Hmmm... Well I guess I could replace the substrate and get some new lights and fertilizers. I've always wanted a planted tank, but I just never got around to it because it was pointless putting plants in there that would get dug up by male sunfish. I'm new to the planted tank world, so I have a lot to learn.

Duckweed would be good but I don't know what I would do with it if it got out of control. I guess I could get a goldfish and feed it to the goldfish when I had too much. I have some Salvinia minima and Amazonian frogbit that I could use instead, but I don't know how well it would grow under the lighting I have. I haven't had much success with it inside yet (except for my 2 1/2 gallon tanks by my window).

I would advise against duckweed. Once it gets in your tank, it's nearly impossible to get rid of. Use water sprite, frogbit, hornwort, or some other floating plant.

I would advise against duckweed. Once it gets in your tank, it's nearly impossible to get rid of. Use water sprite, frogbit, hornwort, or some other floating plant.

Oh yeah! I was in a rush when I posted and forgot to mention. If you don't have duckweed yet, don't get it. Unfortunately he got some in from a LFS and hasn't been able to get rid of it. Although I think he now has two species, one of which is easier to manage. I also believe adding flow to a tank with duckweed will ultimately kill it. I've had a couple pieces of duckweed come in but never established and I think it is because of that reason.

Also wanted to add. Some of the species you listed will "live" in lower light conditions but will "prosper" with more light.

fishlvr, add another set of twenty-four inch strip lights. You can bring the plants closer to the lights with a deep substrate. You should be able to grow a few dozen native and non-native species. I posted some information in the other topic.

I would advise against duckweed. Once it gets in your tank, it's nearly impossible to get rid of. Use water sprite, frogbit, hornwort, or some other floating plant.

I keep Giant and Star duckweed without any problem.

Oh yeah! I was in a rush when I posted and forgot to mention. If you don't have duckweed yet, don't get it. Unfortunately he got some in from a LFS and hasn't been able to get rid of it. Although I think he now has two species, one of which is easier to manage. I also believe adding flow to a tank with duckweed will ultimately kill it. I've had a couple pieces of duckweed come in but never established and I think it is because of that reason.

I'll have to try adding some flow to the surface. I got my duckweed by accident from a LFS, too. It has invaded most of my tanks, it's worse than a disease.

Sorry for the late chime in; I haven't logged in all weekend.

To get the tank like the one in the picture you linked to requires a LOT of work; more than the average person is willing to put out. If you really want something like that, I suggest you go and read around the forums at The Planted Tank. The tank you showed is most likely what is called a "high tech" tank. It may not have any soil at all, but would instead use a lot of fertilizer dosing (daily), as well as expensive lighting and CO2 injection. That would be my guess. Definitely something that you could do if you have the money and inclination, but I'm not that kind of person.

Unfortunately, I know of few native plants that will prosper under standard 1-strip fluorescent lighting. I would put at least a second strip on there. Since the tank doesn't have much to it yet, I would remove the gravel and build a soil-based substrate underneath. Tour through the native plants forum for past discussions. You can certainly make a lush-looking tank that doesn't take as much work as the one you showed, but the plants will probably be a bit less dense. That's good in my opinion, though, since they won't need so much thinning as they grow. Also, remember that the photo you saw was taken at a very good time for that tank. Appearances go up and down as you thin, move things around, plants spread, etc. We never see pictures of people's tanks when they are in disarray.

Thanks. I guess it would be better if there was some room in the tank anyways so that I could see the fish that were in the tank. I think I'm going to get some better lighting and put fertilizer in it weekly, and I'm probably going to put some soil under the gravel like you said. Would sand/dirt/mud/whatever else is in there from my creek work, or do I need soil from above water? Also, will the Asiatic clams that are in the gravel dig up the plants? There are somewhere between 20-50 clams in there, and it would be difficult to get them out of the gravel. I can do it if I need to, but I'd rather not if it wasn't necessary.

Would sand/dirt/mud/whatever else is in there from my creek work, or do I need soil from above water?

I've used soil from lakes and garden centers. Purchasing soil is a much better option in my opinion. Although, with the many choices available, its sometimes hard to choose. Look for an organic humic based soil. This type of soil will grow plants much better than earth from a lake or stream.

Also, will the Asiatic clams that are in the gravel dig up the plants? There are somewhere between 20-50 clams in there, and it would be difficult to get them out of the gravel. I can do it if I need to, but I'd rather not if it wasn't necessary.

You'll need to remove gravel if you plan to use soil so just scoop 'um out.

The clams should not be a problem for plants.

I would not use both soil and fertilizer unless you notice problems from low nutrients (a previously robust plant starts to fail, chlorotic growth, etc.). There have been discussions about purchased soil and using leaves under the substrate in the forums. Do not use soil with extra fertilizers added (e.g. Miracle-Gro). Using soil from the creek may be just fine, or it may need a bit of nutrients added. If it is a large tank that you don't want to do over soon, I would use purchased soil.

Ok then soil it is. I'll probably buy some fertilizer just in case I have any nutrient problems.

Topminnow, why couldn't I put the gravel on top of the soil?

Ok then soil it is. I'll probably buy some fertilizer just in case I have any nutrient problems.

Topminnow, why couldn't I put the gravel on top of the soil?

He means you'll have to remove the gravel to put the soil in the tank. You will put the gravel back on top.

Don't get fertilizer yet. You can always get it later. What I like to do is use chunks of Miracle Grow (or similar) houseplant fertilizer sticks, broken up very small, jammed into the soil by the roots of the heavy feeders. Fertilizing the water column is asking for an algae bloom in my opinion. (Some people use a water column dosing method, but it requires daily attention).

He means you'll have to remove the gravel to put the soil in the tank. You will put the gravel back on top.

Don't get fertilizer yet. You can always get it later. What I like to do is use chunks of Miracle Grow (or similar) houseplant fertilizer sticks, broken up very small, jammed into the soil by the roots of the heavy feeders. Fertilizing the water column is asking for an algae bloom in my opinion. (Some people use a water column dosing method, but it requires daily attention).

I've got some aquatic plant fertilizer tabs that I use for my pond lillies, horsetail rush, and pickerel weed. Will those work?

Topminnow, why couldn't I put the gravel on top of the soil?

Combination of substrate types looks more natural in my opinion. Plus, the environment which your fish come from does not solely consist of stones. Also, you want to prevent excess leaching of nutrients from the soil into your water. I'm not sure how well your stones will cover the soil compared to sand or a pea gravel mix. However, I'm not suggesting you toss the substrate. Use it with sand and gravel to create a more relaxed look.

I'm not very good at explaining things so heres a photograph.

I've got some aquatic plant fertilizer tabs that I use for my pond lillies, horsetail rush, and pickerel weed. Will those work?

Do you remember the brand name?

Tetra FloraPride is an 'all around' fertilizer which works pretty well. Plant spikes free of phosphate and nitrates work too. You'll find that certain species will prefer one or the other. For example, Crypts., Vallisneria, and Sagittaria prefer spikes while Ceratophyllum and Ceratopteris prefer liquid. However, I don't suggest using both.

I've got some aquatic plant fertilizer tabs that I use for my pond lillies, horsetail rush, and pickerel weed. Will those work?

I've used Pond Care Plant Food Tabs in my tanks. I think they are made by Tetra. I broke them up into smaller chunks.

Thanks for all the help guys. I guess I'll get started on it, and when I get it setup I'll take pics from the first day and as it progresses (as the plants fill in and fish are added).

I have another question. If I were to have a bunch of plants in there, would I still need a filter? I've noticed a lot of tanks with lots of plants don't have filters(or maybe they're just hidden well?). The main reason I'm asking is because I was thinking about lowering the water level of the tank and maybe having a couple emergent plants (horsetail rush, a small flowering lilly, such as N. aquatica, etc).