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Are the blue pickerel really extinct

Started by Guest_emiller526_* , Aug 20 2008 09:59 AM

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#1 Guest_emiller526_*

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 09:59 AM

Hello All

I am new to this forum. I joined this forum for some help with my recent catch. I was fishing in Bradford county in PA and cought a 23inch chain pickerel. I of course was excited with the catch. Upon futher inspection his fins and mouth were blue. Did not think much of it (even though all of the other chain pickerels we cought wre not blue in tint). Took him home and it turns out he is blue all inside too. I have attached some photos of him on the outside. I will try to post his inside later. My question to all is in all the research I did I found that blue pickerel do exist. However, they became extinct in 1960s. Most forums I found stated that a blue pickerel might be mistaken for a walleye. Please help.

EB

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#2 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 01:02 PM

Hello EB,

While that is an extremely interesting specimen, the "blue pike" or "blue pickerel" was acutally a perch (Family Percidae), Sander vitreus glaucus, believed to be a subspecies of walleye. As I said tho, that doesn't discount the interesting genetic expression of the Family Esocidae specimen you have there! That is truly a "blue pike"

Todd

#3 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 20 August 2008 - 02:06 PM

Kind of reminds me of mark's green pickerel... his 'emerald pike'... always sort of a bue green look to me any way...

http://www.jonahsaqu...mericanusem.htm

mark's was even lighter in body color so looked more green, but maybe a similar trait... this always reminds me of bird genetics... people that breed parrots and stuff have determined that certain colors can be expressed or held back... so you can get the leutenistc birds (all yellow since they can't make blue pigment... and it takes yellow and blue to make green ya know)... or very blue birds (can't remember the name, but this is no yellow)... Well, lots of fish are basically variations on green... particulatly pickerel right? So maybe the same thing is going on here... less yellow and the fish looks blue?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 05:16 PM

Could be. The blue in most vertebrates is a structural pigment- i.e. it comes from the fine structure of the epidermis, not from chemical pigments; green is created by xanthins (yellow pigments) behind the blue skin. So a normally green fish that is axanthic would appear blue. I've seen this phenomenon in frogs and snakes.

That doesn't explain why the flesh would be blue, though...

#5 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 20 August 2008 - 08:17 PM

That doesn't explain why the flesh would be blue, though...

True, and he did say 'he is blue all inside too'... not really sure what that meant... muscle tissue (the meat or flesh)... or did he mean the internal organs... or the inside of the mouth and gill areas... ?

And thanks for the memory refresh... axanthic, is the word I have heard before for lacking yellow and therefore appearing blue.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#6 Guest_emiller526_*

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 10:16 PM

True, and he did say 'he is blue all inside too'... not really sure what that meant... muscle tissue (the meat or flesh)... or did he mean the internal organs... or the inside of the mouth and gill areas... ?

And thanks for the memory refresh... axanthic, is the word I have heard before for lacking yellow and therefore appearing blue.

Hey guys great responses
Tomorrow I am going to post pictures of his insides. I mean his meat is blue. His guts and so forth that i cut out were normal. His meat is blue. Hopefully my father will reply with his pictures tomorrow. The previous pictures were from my iphone. Thanks

#7 Guest_emiller526_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:48 AM

Hello All

I did talk to the fishing commission this morning and was advised that they do believe it is a genetic pigment mutation. The fish commission never actually saw my fish but stated that Bradford county in PA recieved few calls over the years stating the same thing. Fish commission stated about one a year is caught.

I attached the photo of what he looks like inside. If you notice all the meat is blue. I also attached a few other photos of him.

I do believe I caught a "mutated" chain pickerel. But I would be intrigued to know what a true "blue pickerel" looks like?

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#8 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:54 AM

Im scared to eat that blue fillet, but I thought normally the color is on skin, not flesh? They looks like dyed. Something's fishy around in your lake where the blue pickerel were caught.

#9 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:38 AM

I could go into the fridge and try and take a photo of Carol's specimens, but I think the rule there is "will be shot on sight".

I'll ask nice if I can take some pictures when she's back from AFS.

Todd

#10 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 12:22 PM

But I would be intrigued to know what a true "blue pickerel" looks like?

A small walleye with larger eyes, smaller interorbital space, and a grayish-blue body. The whole "pike" part of the name is just a regional common name perpetuated by restuaraunt menus.

#11 Guest_topminnow_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 01:30 PM

Poor fish, let us know if your tongue turns blue.

#12 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 05:30 PM

Aww, she's in Ottawa, she'll never know...

btw, Josh gave a really nice talk.

Dave

I could go into the fridge and try and take a photo of Carol's specimens, but I think the rule there is "will be shot on sight".

I'll ask nice if I can take some pictures when she's back from AFS.

Todd

#13 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:26 PM

I will be sure to pass that along to him Dave, he'll really appreciate that

Todd

#14 Guest_nerfgunner_*

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 03:03 PM

Dude Nice Catch! That has a walleye body with a pikes head! Really That is insane looking fish!

#15 Guest_nativecajun_*

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 06:13 AM

Just looks like a well fed chain pickerel dyed blue to me. Would be nice to pass along some samples to someone that can do some DNA testing on it. Brian Zimmerman is a good one for that. He runs a public vending store here on this site. Just look under I think it just says Vendors. I suppose you were just fishing for something to eat. But maybe you fried it tail fins and all and it is all caputs. Well if that is the case you can keep the next ten you catch alive maybe :mrgreen:

Would have been nice to see it alive and swimming in a large tank. But thanks for the photos. This is increasingly become a new interest to me. To go out and catch fish just for study and sharing purposes. Easier than trying to keep tanks for everything you catch :closedeyes:

Thanks again for sharing,
Daniel

#16 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 08:58 PM

I do not have the means to do any genetic testing nor do I know how, I do have friends that do this kind of work but I do not do anything like this myself.

That is a very interesting fish and it does indeed look much like the grass pickerel that Mark Binkley had a few years ago and has photos of that someone linked to above. Those fish actually came out of my pickerel breeding pond. As far as I know though Mark kept the only two I ever found, I have never heard of anyone who I sold one too (or that Mark sold for me) say that there pickerel turned out green or blue. Anyways that is an interesting find, and that is one very fat Pickerel!

#17 Guest_mikemn230_*

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 11:16 PM

Interesting, I would suggest you keep some of it stored on ice, maybe someone would like to take a look at its genes, and see if it is genetic.

There is a silver phase of Pike, E. Lucius that may be the pike equivlent on that. However, with those pike the meat looks normal.

The blue tinged flesh makes me think chemical in its food. What has it been eating is another question. That is one of the girthiest Chains I have seen as well, and it is a good length of specimen too.

Is there a good high fat/protien food source in that lake that has a bluish color to it?

#18 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 10:09 AM

I've heard about "colored' algae on the fish's surface, but not inside the flesh...this is very odd pickerel you have! I really doubt that someone will injected blue dye into pickerel then release back into water. But look at the well fed pickerel and it got me thinking that its possible that this pickere were once kept in tank then ex owner injected his own pet & release it in the waterways. Thats my theory and a really stupid one!

#19 Guest_emiller526_*

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 06:57 PM

I caught the fish in sunfish pond. So as you can imagine there are a lot of sunfish. Also perch, minnows, catfish and trout. Thats all I can think of now? I had a sweet spot where I was catching chain pickerel all day! They were all normal colour. Than I landed this guy and he was fat and blue. I do have his meat still frozen. I called the state game fishing and they were not interested.

#20 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 11:10 PM

I know a researcher who would be particularly interested in this fish. He studies blue pigment in fishes. If you still have it, or parts of it, let me know.