New development on VHS: Nov. 10 Rules postponed.

The new Interim ruling by APHIS regarding the VHS virus that was supposed to take effect November 10, 2008 has been postponed. Apparently it finally got through to APHIS that their new ruling, that not only is ineffectual at curtailing the spread of VHS, penalizes both private, state, and Federal fish farms that don't have the virus, and would put many private fish producers out of business has serious problems. Thanks to private, state, Federal, Board of Animal Health and other entities, and finally political pressure, they are finally listening to us. Before our representatives got involved the comment periods were nothing more than protocol and APHIS has their minds made up.


Attached is a message just received from Gary Whelan, Michigan DNR
concerning a congressional briefing on the IR.

Yesterday, I participated in a Congressional Briefing on the USDA-APHIS
VHSv Interim Rule and there were about 40 people in attendance, a large
percentage were congressional staff along with USDA-APHIS staff and a
few others. USDA-APHIS has heard a lot of concerns about their proposed
interim rule from private aquaculturists and state agencies which has in
turn brought congressional interest. At the briefing, USDA-APHIS
announced that they will be delaying the implementation of the Interim
Rule for at least 60 days and around Jan 10 will be releasing a revised
Interim Rule based on all of the comments received. This Interim Rule
will likely have another 60 day comment period prior to implementation
(around March 10). These items should show up in the federal register
in the next couple of days and when I see it, I will pass it along.

It is still important that comments be received by the November 10th
date and you make wish to consider providing some alternative options
for objectionable provisions of the current Interim Rule.

Gary

???? So what does all that mean to you, please translate for us gobbledegoop challenged fish people

???? So what does all that mean to you, please translate for us gobbledegoop challenged fish people

It means until least next year APHIS will take a hard look at making any facility that uses an unprotected water source such as a stream test every 30 days for VHS. And it means those facilities that have a protected water source can still continue to test for VHS once a year vs. twice a year which they wanted to make mandatory. At least until next year. And the bs they came up with where not only do the fish have to be tested, a vet has to come out and visually look at the fish for signs of disease (even if they were show to be negative for VHS) will be put on the back burner for a while. They also wanted the vet to witness sanitation of the tanks. A visit by a vet itself can run a few hundred dollars not to mention the taking of samples for testing. Then of course there are the lab costs for the testing itself. Incidentally there weren't and aren't enough certified vets around to do as much testing as needed let along silly repeated visits.

When one considers health testing annually costs many of us several thousand dollars, to make someone do it every 30 days or twice a year vs. once a year the cost really adds up. One farmer in Michigan that uses a stream for a water source projected his health care costs would go up to $60,000 a year as he would have to test every 30 days. He would not be able to do that and would have to close his doors.

There are a lot of other things that were proposed that made no sense as in samples could only be taken in a particular water temperature ranges when some trout hatcheries don't ever have that temperature range in their hatchery water.

Please don't get the wrong idea. No body wants this virus especially fish farmers that sell fish for a living, but to target the fish farmers that have NEVER EVER tested positive for this virus and to run them out of business by doing so makes no sense. They claim it is for our own good but what they propose is like killing the patient to cure the disease.

Although it can't be proven yet it's starting to look like this virus is moving around via actual fish vs. the water. Nothing is being done to stop ballast water with live fish and other organisms (183 exotics to date have now be introduced into the Great Lakes) coming into the Great Lakes from God knows where. In the mean time anglers are moving fish around in their livewells and it's not even illegal to in some states (including mine) as long as you don't cross a state line.

Additionally the fish kills on the Great lakes aren't as massive as some say and most of these fish are rough fish i.e. gobies, sheepshead, carp, etc. It appears what is typically the case with most pathogens not all fish are killed and the survivors seem to develop an immunity. There are some credible pathologists that are thinking this virus has been here a while but only effects fish when they are in a weakened condition as in after winter or less than optimum temps where their immune systems aren't running full bore.

Edited by az9, 24 October 2008 - 08:38 PM.

ok now i understand, and as per usual it seems that the purpose is worthwhile, (to control a disease or at least contain it) but as per usual they want to make everyone including legitimate, caring and sometimes small businessmen into mummys when a band-aid would do. What about all the bait -fish i see everywhere with sometimes sunfish and other strays mixed in shipped from somewhere to indiana, sold to me to bait my lines and then dump the rest in the river?? (I dont do this but you know what i mean) why not educate legitimate dealers, give them a test kit, and say now govern yourself. and by legitimate that should be evident by proper license, and annual inspections to see if this guy is actually legit and is testing and controlling this at the base level, and then get the hell out of our way and out of our hair.

ok now i understand, and as per usual it seems that the purpose is worthwhile, (to control a disease or at least contain it) but as per usual they want to make everyone including legitimate, caring and sometimes small businessmen into mummys when a band-aid would do. What about all the bait -fish i see everywhere with sometimes sunfish and other strays mixed in shipped from somewhere to indiana, sold to me to bait my lines and then dump the rest in the river?? (I dont do this but you know what i mean) why not educate legitimate dealers, give them a test kit, and say now govern yourself. and by legitimate that should be evident by proper license, and annual inspections to see if this guy is actually legit and is testing and controlling this at the base level, and then get the hell out of our way and out of our hair.

Well that's another thing from APHIS that doesn't make sense. As long as those bait fish came from within Indiana no testing is required. But if they came from outside of Indiana from one of the Great Lakes states they need to be tested. It's like the virus only shows up if it crosses states lines?! LOL (Actually the reason although not a good one from a biological standpoint is it's easier to regulate interstate commerce than it is intrastate). It would make more sense to regulate watersheds if they were really serious.

However most baitfish that you buy ARE tested for VHS even though they come from outside the Great Lakes states. Mainly Arkansas. The sunfish you see mixed in are usually green sunfish or green sunfish hybrids that were in the same pond as the fathead minnows. I found this out a couple of years ago when I bought fatheads by the gallon from a dealer to give my smallmouth bass something to subsist on over the winter in one of my holding ponds. When I drained the pond I found a few green sunfish! That's the only place they could have come from. I've also found carp and sticklebacks in my bait minnows!

In some states as in New York where VHS has been detected in a few inland lakes, the bait fish are very tightly regulated and have to have a certificate of inspection to show they are free of VHS before they can be sold by the bait stores. And last I heard anglers can only use wild caught bait fish (if they catch them themselves) in the actual water they came out of. They can not use them anywhere else. That may have changed. Seems to me they may have stopped the use an sale of wild caught bait minnows altogether but I may be wrong.

Here in Indiana we can take public caught fish and put them in our private ponds and of course aquariums. But if the fish were VHS positive -- putting them into a pond that overflows eventually into a watershed - that may not have the virus could potentially introduce the virus. Most ponds have an overflow mechanism in case of heavy rains and that water usually ends up in a ditch, stream, lake, other pond etc.

Edited by az9, 25 October 2008 - 07:07 AM.

Hey guys. Just a little perspective from Wisconsin here.

As a summer job I worked with the UW-Madison Center for Limnology sampling fish populations throughout Wisconsin (using gill nets, fyke nets, trammel nets, and electrofishing). As part of the WDNR's new VHS prevention regulations, we had to bleach down all equipment that touched lake water in between each lake that we sampled in northern WI. According to my supervisors, VHS has never even been seen in any northern WI lakes. It is interesting to me that such measures were enacted for a few reasons.

#1) Although we do it, I am sure that very few sport fishermen and other recreational lake users bother to follow the protocol for moving a boat between lakes.

#2) Some things should not be bleached (i.e. batteries and other sensitive equipment), while others are infeasible to bleach thoroughly enough to actively prevent the virus.

While certain regulations may be admirable, actual implementation and whether people will bother following them should be taken into account.

One other point:

The spread of VHS throughout our nation's lakes is inevitable (if not through humans, than by other vectors present in nature like great herons). Fortunately, it seems to be present in other strains throughout the world, and thanks to natural selection, resistance has developed. Although it might seem like doom, death, and destruction right now, I have not doubt resistance will eventually develop in our fish populations.

The spread of VHS throughout our nation's lakes is inevitable (if not through humans, than by other vectors present in nature like great herons). Fortunately, it seems to be present in other strains throughout the world, and thanks to natural selection, resistance has developed. Although it might seem like doom, death, and destruction right now, I have not doubt resistance will eventually develop in our fish populations.

Good points especially the above. It just blew me away that APHIS was touting this as the ultimate doomed death blow to all fisheries when evidence in other parts of the world showed otherwise. In fact, since the first detection a couple of years ago, there haven't been any documented fish kills attributed to VHS that I know of. The fish that have found to have tested positive via sampling were not even moribund. That tells even a basic level microbiology student that fish can and are developing an immunity to this virus.

One cynical individual I know tells me labeling it the ultimate threat creates grant money for research that keeps individuals and agencies afloat.