I've been trying to get these pretty little minnows home all summer. Found them in the Red River (east KY). Closest ID I've seen so far is bigeye shiner, but doesn't look quite right. These fellows have an irridescent blue stripe down their side, not very obvious in the photo, but quite visible to the naked eye.



Anyway, they proved to be quite fragile. First time I found them, I got three home (and lost six). Of those three, two just disappeared in the tank over the course of two weeks, while the third thrived and just keeps getting fatter.

Second trip, I had them in two buckets, and lost all of them.

So, this time I thought I'd experiment a bit. Had three 5 gallon paint buckets with nice tight lids. In one, I put a few of these minnows, plus a few darters (emerald, banded, johnny), as that's how I had brought the other ones back, mixed in with darters. In the second bucket, just minnows. In the third, just minnows but mixed in some anti stress salt I got from a pet store. I thought that perhaps the alarm substance darters give off might be overstressing the minnows, and the salt was from advice I've received here. It's about an hour's drive back home, maybe a bit more.

Got home this afternoon, and I hadn't lost any of them. So much for that experiment. The only other factor that had changed was ambient temperature. Last summer, it was in the 80's, this trip it was in the 60's. I had tried transporting them last summer inside with the AC going full blast, but that didn't seem to make much difference. So I guess the lesson I learned is try to transport the more fragile minnows when the temperature is lower. Time to go looking for some brook silversides...

Shiners don't do well in summer collections almost no matter what you do, they're already stressed in relatively high water temperatures. This time of year it's much easier to get them home alive and keep them alive. As to the ID on those shiners, it's not clear...

I think we've talked about collecting shiners and fish in general in the southeast during the summer a few other times. Don't bother with shiners unless you are okay with major mortality and a lot of parasites. Spring and Fall are the best times of year to transport and acclimate them.

John, glad to hear that you finally got some of those shiners back alive, I know you've been dying to have some of them for your tank.

Darters have schreckstoff??

Darters have schreckstoff??

That's a good question, I've never heard that they do but a lot of fish release other hormonal odorants that have a similar effect. So yeah, does anyone know? (I'll see what Google yields...)

OK, just as I initially thought, there is reason to be believe that darters and others can release alarm chemicals. The following is from R. Jan F. Smith, "Alarm signals in fishes", Reviews in Fish Biology and Fisheries, 2 33-63, 1992:

"The many effects of alarm signalling that have been documented or proposed in fishes or other organisms indicate that this phenomenon must be taken into account in any examination of foraging tactics or predator-prey interaction or any of the several areas of decision making that could be influenced by information on predation risk. Alarm signalling is probably much more widespread than was previously thought. Alarm pheromones are not just an obscure feature of the ostariophysans, although that group alone includes over 6000 species, but also occur in various forms in darters (150 species), gobies (2000 species), sculpins (300 species) and perhaps others. Distress sounds occur in over 24 families (Myrberg, 1981). Alarm calls occur in at least some holocentrids (60 species) and possibly in cods (only 55 species, but some economic value). Visual alarm signals have been reported in gobies (2000 species) and bioluminescent displays in a batrachoidid (65 species). Yet only a small fraction of fishes have been carefully examined for alarm or distress signalling. If we multiply the range of effects by the number of potential species involved, we have a subject area of some general importance in understanding the interactions between prey and predators."

[quote name='JohnO' date='Oct 26 2008, 10:35 PM' post='48351']
I've been trying to get these pretty little minnows home all summer.

johnO

HI catfishtony here. im new to this fish tank stuff but ive been fishing for 35 years
and fish eat fish plus big fish like live shad and shiners from 5" to 12" long.
as the heat goes up lets say past 75 deg, air temp try this ive kept shad alive for two weeks like this.
we will call this the fact factor--------Filtration-Aeration-Circulation-Temperature
shad and shiners need the most care of all bait we use.
this is what i use a 5 gal bucket with water from the lake/stream
add (Sure Life Shad Keeper) do a google for the web site.
A battery powered air pump any one will work short term.
dont use ice... ok make sure dont use ice.
ice has Chlorine in it and your bait fish will DIE
fill up empty water bottles with distilled water and freeze
place 2 in the bucket with the fish and shad keeper asap.
l dont keep them in this new water for more then 15 minutes
leave now and put fish in clean water in a bigger bucket i use an old ice cooler maybe around 20 gal. or my big tank 100 gal.
i filled with lake water first and also put shad keeper in and frozen water bottles before the trip to catch your bait
after 15 to 30 minutes shad and shiners will build up with harmful hormones in there system
due to stress( moving, netting and handling)and some come out into the water and they
may also expel all stomach contents this will kill them faster then you will get home
this is why i change the water and put them in a bigger vessel.
ok now were in the car on the way i turn on my air pump this time i use a power converter to run a big air pump
like you have @ home wallmart sells them for about 20$ it plugs into lighter in the car
if i have 50-300 bait fish i use the big tank and 2 air supplies with a fillter

read this link for more help on the larger system it works in summer with temps over 90 degs.
for days on end.i used this mans set up and changed it to fit my own style of bait fishing.

http://www.catfishin.net/baittank.html

i hope my little bit of help works for you
have a good day JohnO

Tony.

Edited by CATfishTONY, 27 October 2008 - 04:49 PM.

Yes, I agree with everyone else, in that I do not recommend taking fish home in the summer and/or warmer months in general (just too much stress), especially minnows.

Also, I do not recommend taking fish home when you do not have a positive ID. I know sometimes its hard, but if you don't know the fishes ID chances are you are not that infatuated with them to where you can resist the urge, just snap a photo streamside, go home or on here, get an ID, and then if its legal wait until a cooler month to go out and collect them, take em' home and enjoy them!

Nice photos as always! And good luck!

Thanks,

Blake

Yes, I agree with everyone else, in that I do not recommend taking fish home in the summer and/or warmer months in general (just too much stress), especially minnows.

Also, I do not recommend taking fish home when you do not have a positive ID. I know sometimes its hard, but if you don't know the fishes ID chances are you are not that infatuated with them to where you can resist the urge, just snap a photo streamside, go home or on here, get an ID, and then if its legal wait until a cooler month to go out and collect them, take em' home and enjoy them!

Nice photos as always! And good luck!

Thanks,

Blake

you can catch and keep your fish if you just take care of them no matter what month of the year it is.
just dont let them get to stresed out. or they will fail for sure. its all about prep time!
anyone can catch fish but its hard work to keep them alive.

Bruce - thanks for the follow-up. In my ignorance I thought schreckstoff was pretty much restricted to Ostariophysi.

Bruce - thanks for the follow-up. In my ignorance I thought schreckstoff was pretty much restricted to Ostariophysi.

i all so must say thanks.
for my ignorance when it comes to keeping a mixed group of minnows alive
until the 26th i never even heard of schreckstoff
thats why i love this site.

Bruce - thanks for the follow-up. In my ignorance I thought schreckstoff was pretty much restricted to Ostariophysi.

An interesting aside - plants do this too. It's called "chemical signaling". Occurs as a response to pest infestation.