A few from southern KY
#1 Guest_JohnO_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 01:43 AM
This beautiful bloodfin, from the rockcastle river.
Striped, I believe... little rascal would come to rest next to the one algae glob on the front of the tank.
Greenside actually starting to show some green? Those spots on the dorsal look a little funny. This photo doesn't show them all that well, but they're not the dark spots one normally sees on a greenside, more light brown like on a johnny. What's darterspeak for 'raise your dorsal fin, please'?
This one is a puzzle. I thought it was an orangethroat, what with the white on the dorsal, but now that I look at it up close (and crank up the saturation on the photo a bit to enhance color), well, no that's not what it is. Blue on the anal fin and mouth definitely not right, and the red breaking up into dots looks different. The KDFWR list for that area doesn't show anything like it. I found it on a little spring fed creek that emptied into Crooked Creek (which is fairly large). We worked crooked creek over pretty good, and didn't see anything like this, found two of these but only in that little spring fed creek.
#2 Guest_jimv8673_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 08:26 AM
#3 Guest_JohnO_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:37 AM
#4 Guest_ashtonmj_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:39 AM
Bloodfin do not have the margins of color like that on their unpairde fins,. That is definately a doration species and not an emerald or greenside because of the snout, pectoral fins, blue pigment, saddles, and the dorsal fin colors (blue and orange). You were on the right track with orangethroat. I think it was mentioned in a recent KY collection thread, but the only true orangethroats are in direct tributaries to the Mississippi and Ohio rivers. Further inland where you typically collect, Cumberland River drainage, you have some endemic members of the orangethroat complex.
NatureServe list for Rockcastle River
#5 Guest_jblaylock_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:01 PM
1. Male Bloodfin
2. Female Bloodfin, John I know we collected some Stripes..are you sure this is one? It's hard to tell by that photo. It looks like a female bloodfin to me.
3. Male Channel Darter
4. Unknow, still a puzzle to me.
#6 Guest_ashtonmj_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:17 PM
This is a bloodfin darter Bloodfin darter. Lacks the striped pigment on the fins, has red pigment along the margins of the tail fin, and typically has a vertical bar under the eye.
This is a bluebreast, which is what John has in picture 1 (male) and 2 (female).Bluebreast male and female
This is a Speckled darter, which is the Doration member from much of the Tennessee drainage. John is showing the undescribed Doration from the upper Cumberland drainage given the common name Longhunt darterSpeckled darter
I cannot find my headwater darter (formerly orangethroat) pictures at the moment. I believe this picture is of a Headwater darter by Dave Neely because the location is correct for that orangethroat member. All prior pictures are in Todd Crails gallery and are from locations he and I collected fish, fish I provided, or places I have been to and he later visted.
#7 Guest_jblaylock_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:25 PM
Okay check out these pictures to go along with my identifications.
This is a bloodfin darter Bloodfin darter. Lacks the pigment on the fins.
This is a bluebreast, which is what John has in picture 1 (male) and 2 (female).Bluebreast male and female
This is a Speckled darter, which is the Doration member from much of the Tennessee drainage. John is showing the undescribed Doration from the upper Cumberland drainage given the common name Longhunt darterSpeckled darter
I cannot find my headwater darter (formerly orangethroat) pictures at the moment. Dave Neely has one in his gallery but I do not want to link to it directly. All prior pictures are in Todd Crails gallery and are from locations he and I collected fish, fish I provided, or places I have been to and he later visted.
I thought bloodfin because the head of the fish, especially the cheeks don't match up. But it could be. I've got one in my tank, let me see if I can get a good pic.
The second photo I originally thought bluebreast as well, but I have one in my tank, and it again just doesn't match up.
Good call on the Speckled. When I first saw the photo, I thought that as well. However, since I was there catching these same fish I thought it was a channel (in person). If that is a speckled, I wish I would have kept one myself.
#8 Guest_ashtonmj_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 04:43 PM
#9 Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 06:03 PM
As for the others, I wish I was more familiar with fishes of Kentucky.
Blake
#10 Guest_ashtonmj_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:10 PM
#11 Guest_JohnO_*
Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:11 PM
Finally got this one to spread it's dorsal. So this is a bluebreast? Okay, I've boosted the saturation a bit to amplify color, looks like it has a blue breast.
The female? Thought it was a striped at first because of the stripes
Speckled?
#12 Guest_jblaylock_*
Posted 24 November 2008 - 07:52 AM
I totally agree with the 3rd being a Speckled. I swear those did not have that much color when we pull them out of the river. They were actually plain and kinda looked like a Johnny when we were catching them. I wish I would have kept one, I'd love to see their breeding colors in person.
John, did that Speckled have that much color when you caught it? All the ones I caught were kinda plain yellowish.
#13 Guest_JohnO_*
Posted 24 November 2008 - 11:38 AM
Wasn't until I looked at the photos of the bluebreast that I could really make out the blue breast. Went back to look at them in the tank, sure enough there's some blue on the bottom.
So did you find the two bluebreasts in the riffles? I found the one in a pool just off of the riffles.
Darn, these little rascals are turning out to be difficult to identify. Just when you think you have a handle on some basic ID's, they throw you a curve ball. Then again, that's what makes finding them so fascinating. I can see why people get a doctorate in the subject. I'm finding that ID'ing a darter by photographs only is highly subjective (do I hear some chuckling from the pros?), as the darters themselves can vary in coloration depending upon their mood. Plus, you have the characteristics of the photograph, just backlit versus front lit will alter the perceived photo considerably. Physical characteristics first, then start looking at color, and let them settle down in the tank for a day or two before judging color.
I should follow what I tell the people around me as regards object design in software - don't be so hasty to leap to conclusions. Get back to basics, establish a firm foundation. Miss one detail and the entire design can be invalidated.
#14 Guest_smbass_*
Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:16 AM
#15 Guest_JohnO_*
Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:37 AM
That was a strange stream. It looked like darter heaven - packed with snails and the little shrimp like crustaceans that also can be found in the big spring on my farm. You would think it would be jam packed with darters, but all I could find was a few of these and the omnipresent banded sculpin.
#16 Guest_ashtonmj_*
Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:41 AM
#17 Guest_JohnO_*
Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:07 PM
Speaking of sculpins, those little rascals are determined migrators. I've found them in tiny spring fed streams that even the darters shun. On my own farm, with a fairly large spring, banded sculpins somehow got past a 2' waterfall to get into the headwaters of that spring.
Edited by JohnO, 26 November 2008 - 10:11 PM.
#18 Guest_farmertodd_*
Posted 27 November 2008 - 09:39 AM
headwaterdarter.jpg 33.31KB 2 downloads
It's overexposed, sorry about that, I had a LOT of camera trouble on that trip.
Todd
edit: Just saw Dave's pic Matt posted. I didn't read the whole thread carefully. Not trying to out-do anyone, that pic was better, just overlooked it
Edited by farmertodd, 27 November 2008 - 10:00 AM.
#19 Guest_ceas_*
Posted 03 March 2009 - 10:29 AM
#20 Guest_farmertodd_*
Posted 03 March 2009 - 10:38 AM
Thanks again,
Todd
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