Enneacanthus obesus for mosquito control

I found this website [ banded sunnies for mosquito control ] about using banded sunnies for mosquito control in fallow cranberry bogs on Cape Cod. I found it very interesting and thought I'd share.

Naturally, there is concern about "wreaking havoc" on the environment. I found this very interesting quote from the aquaculturist in charge in the Gulf of Maine Times

"The biggest concern is whether the introduced sunfish might escape their intended waters, overpopulate and wreak havoc on ecosystems. That’s unlikely, says Bill Mebane of the Marine Biological Laboratory (MBL). He explains that the sunfish require both low-mineral and highly acidic water to reproduce—water found in only a few natural settings, including cedar swamps and peat or cranberry bogs. There is little chance of the sunfish reproducing outside the acidic bogs where they will be introduced, and where they are found in small numbers today. “The chances are slim to none,” he says, that the sunfish will escape their intended habitat, swell in numbers, and compete with other species."

I'm not sure if he's being disingenuous to placate the doubters or if he believes it, but I've got news for him; I find E. obesus in many different waters in Ma, not just cedar swamps or cranberry bogs.
Nevertheless, it is a cool idea, if of dubious merit. Probably wouldn't help the bug problem much but it might raise awareness of an otherwise little known native specie [and one of my personal favorites ].
I plan to email the mosquito control guy to see how the project turned out. I'll report here if he gets back to me.

Edited by mikez, 12 February 2009 - 09:23 AM.

Yeah, my first thought was does this aquaculturist know what he's talking about? Banded sunfish probably had a much wider range in southern New England at the time of European contact, with the ensuing habitat alteration thinning out their range. I certainly had no problem finding them, both to the north and especially south of Boston in places like Pembroke and Hanson which are full of current and former bogs. The good news is that it's far enough north that no one seriously contemplated introducing Dambusia.

So... I'm confused. If this species is indigenous to the area, what is the problem if they escape the ponds (other than mixing genetic population)?

Seems to me like this is a step in the right direction for mosquito control - managing something that already exists in the area to help solve the problem.

So... I'm confused. If this species is indigenous to the area, what is the problem if they escape the ponds (other than mixing genetic population)?

Seems to me like this is a step in the right direction for mosquito control - managing something that already exists in the area to help solve the problem.

That is exactly what the article says. Maybe someone overlooked that part.

Edited by nativecajun, 12 February 2009 - 09:41 PM.

Re-reading the article leads me to think either the author or the aquaculturists, maybe both, are somewhat confused. The bog ponds/swamps there aren't highly diverse. And pulling a 100-ft. seine through such a bog system might not catch fish, anyway; what's the mesh of this net, and do the leadlines on the nets stay flush on the bottom, and are they really sampling Enneacanthus microhabitat? Maybe it's a job for NANFA field teams (no, really).

Re-reading the article leads me to think either the author or the aquaculturists, maybe both, are somewhat confused. The bog ponds/swamps there aren't highly diverse. And pulling a 100-ft. seine through such a bog system might not catch fish, anyway; what's the mesh of this net, and do the leadlines on the nets stay flush on the bottom, and are they really sampling Enneacanthus microhabitat? Maybe it's a job for NANFA field teams (no, really).

I would never even consider pulling a seine for E. obesus. The only way to reliably collect them is to get right in the muck and dead leaves and sticks and weeds. I can barely lift my dip net it's so full of stuff when I'm in the right habitat. Also they have a habit of staying right up against the shore in inches of water. If you went in with waders, you'd step right over them before you even started netting.
Matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet the initial sampling failed to find them present when they actually were there all along. Seine nets and baitless minnow traps? It's amazing they were able to collect any at all!
The fact that the bogs go dry in dry summers doesn't mean anything either. E. obesus, like redfin pickerel, will ride the rising water of a spring melt or new beaver dam and colonize all kinds of new swamps and vernal pools that never had fish before. If they get wiped out in a drought, they reappear after the next spring flood. I've always believed that was why they like the very edges of the water. As the water rises, it creeps along formally dry land and the sunnies are along for the ride.

I have found that most people, including [especially?] state wildlife types are woefully ignorent of banded sunnies and their habits. They tend to think they're rare and difficult to find. That's why you're starting to see some states protect them when most likely they don't need any protecting beyond protecting of habitat and water quality. Banning them as captives makes no practical sense whatsoever.
The irony of the fear banded sunnies could "wreak havoc" in the environment is that they fill a niche that has no other fish for them to displace. Instead, non-native largemouth bass and bluegills are probably the biggest threat for the native banded sunnies. Just don't suggest removing those species to the people who fear havoc wreaking little bandeds.

I find it funny when they thought banded sunfish can wreak havoc the environment, I just don't see how the banded sunnies can do that. I don't think banded sunfish can displaced any lepomis species in same waterways.

Unless I am missing some part of the article. I think it is maybe some of us that are confused. There is no mention of dipnetting or seining or any collection in a wild habitat. Nor does the article mention the use of seins in their controled ponds. I think some of us need to read a little closer. I cannot see how this was even posted here. They say nothing about seining nor do they mention any danger of ponds overflowing or a species unintentionaly released into the wild that is not already there.

I am not meaning to stomp on toes, but I suggest more careful reading of the article. Like I said unless you have to click on something else within that article, the part that comes up with the link posted mentions non of the stuff most are concerned with and/or invented here.

Kind Regards,

Daniel J. Benoit


I am adding to what I said above. If you do click on the Portable Document Formatted articles within the sub-links it mentions at least one time that I could see that they did infact sein a wild and vegetated area with a 1/8 inch sein. So to answer your question since you may not have read that part the mesh size is 1/8th inch. They did not mention any lead lengths. So since they were successful at what they did I still do not understand all the confusuion only created within this post. I see no contradiction nor confusion with in the whole scope of all three articles that are availble through that link posted.

Again correct me if I am wrong or missing something.
Daniel

I would never even consider pulling a seine for E. obesus. The only way to reliably collect them is to get right in the muck and dead leaves and sticks and weeds. I can barely lift my dip net it's so full of stuff when I'm in the right habitat. Also they have a habit of staying right up against the shore in inches of water. If you went in with waders, you'd step right over them before you even started netting.
Matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet the initial sampling failed to find them present when they actually were there all along. Seine nets and baitless minnow traps? It's amazing they were able to collect any at all!
The fact that the bogs go dry in dry summers doesn't mean anything either. E. obesus, like redfin pickerel, will ride the rising water of a spring melt or new beaver dam and colonize all kinds of new swamps and vernal pools that never had fish before. If they get wiped out in a drought, they reappear after the next spring flood. I've always believed that was why they like the very edges of the water. As the water rises, it creeps along formally dry land and the sunnies are along for the ride.

I have found that most people, including [especially?] state wildlife types are woefully ignorent of banded sunnies and their habits. They tend to think they're rare and difficult to find. That's why you're starting to see some states protect them when most likely they don't need any protecting beyond protecting of habitat and water quality. Banning them as captives makes no practical sense whatsoever.
The irony of the fear banded sunnies could "wreak havoc" in the environment is that they fill a niche that has no other fish for them to displace. Instead, non-native largemouth bass and bluegills are probably the biggest threat for the native banded sunnies. Just don't suggest removing those species to the people who fear havoc wreaking little bandeds.

Edited by nativecajun, 13 February 2009 - 11:15 PM.

What we're talking about is this reference, below in italics; no, they didn't dipnet for banded sunfish or any other technique that would make sense. These people used bogus survey techniques looking for a species whose habits and habitat they don't know at all. They know some big words to use like "ecology", and apparently ran a media blitz on the reporter at the Gulf of Maine Times. They're reintroducing banded sunfish into its swamp habitat. As long as the fish aren't diseased or a totally different population of the species, it has no negative effect on the local bogs.

Large numbers of banded sunfish might also alter the ecology of the cranberry bogs where they will be reared. The MBL’s research, however, suggests that the cranberry bogs do not have many other fish to be crowded out by even large numbers of banded sunfish. Mebane says that his team pulled a 100-foot seine through flooded bogs near Wareham, and found “essentially no other fish.”

I can only hope that the researchers from the MBL are being badly misquoted.

What we're talking about is this reference, below in italics; no, they didn't dipnet for banded sunfish or any other technique that would make sense. These people used bogus survey techniques looking for a species whose habits and habitat they don't know at all. They know some big words to use like "ecology", and apparently ran a media blitz on the reporter at the Gulf of Maine Times. They're reintroducing banded sunfish into its swamp habitat. As long as the fish aren't diseased or a totally different population of the species, it has no negative effect on the local bogs.

Large numbers of banded sunfish might also alter the ecology of the cranberry bogs where they will be reared. The MBL’s research, however, suggests that the cranberry bogs do not have many other fish to be crowded out by even large numbers of banded sunfish. Mebane says that his team pulled a 100-foot seine through flooded bogs near Wareham, and found “essentially no other fish.”

I can only hope that the researchers from the MBL are being badly misquoted.

I read sixty foot sein but that does not have any impact on the disccusion matter we are speaking of, but I do thank you for the clarity you have provided. Some understanding is now in my brain. I may just not know what a cranberry bog is to start off with. I am assuming it is a man made pond. In that case I would think the ecological impact would be zilch. But if the ponds are pre-existing, and natural enviornments they are using, I definatly see the concern.

By the way the pulling of a sein in that sort of wild habitat discussed I would assume would wreak havoc on that habitat. So again I assume my lack of knowledge, since I have never caught bandeds is what lead to my confusion. Thus I understand the bogus servey tecquniques you speak of. But they did mention some sort of traps. I would be interested if you know what they are if you could explain how they would catch a banded in those traps and if you know of a photo I would like to see one. That I would seem would be a responsible tecnique but then again my ingnorance may be speakinng again. I am not an Icthyologist nor biologist of any sort that deals with the wilds of our land. I am a simple Liscensed Electrical Contractor. And I will say this also. I will bookmark that page and study it in depth since it seems I have much to learn of ethics of collecting certain fish and their handling. Again I may not learn it from them but what I want to do is try to understand what you just shared with me and apply it when reading that article over.

I thank you for your input here,

Daniel

Edited by nativecajun, 13 February 2009 - 11:47 PM.

Daniel, not to step on your toes, but I think you need to reread all the articles.
Also, click on the underlined link for the Gulf of Maine Times and read the whole article from which I extracted the quote in my first post.
Some key points made were that bodies of water that supposedly DID NOT HAVE E. obesus were chosen to experiment with. This was done to prevent the "wreaking of havoc" introducing the fish might have. The methods used to make that determination were listed as a seine net and unbaited minnow traps.
My point is that those are extremely inefficient means to sample that species. My feelings [supported by decades of sampling in Massachusetts] are that banded sunfish were already present despite negative sampling results.

For clarification, the cranberry bogs are NOT natural, they are man made. The ones used for the study were fallow, but still man made.
All man made cranberry bogs require a source of water that can be let into or out of the bogs by means of dikes and gates. On the Cape they are usually spring fed streams which feed into the near by ocean. When a man made bog is described as having no inlet or outlet, it means there are dikes with closed gates between the bog and near by natural streams. The problem is floods can over run the dikes.
Not really a problem as far as releasing banded sunfish into the environment because; A] They are already there naturally, and B] They occupy a specialized niche that has no sensitive species to displace.
Hope that helps.

Edited by mikez, 14 February 2009 - 09:09 AM.

Apologies, Daniel, I think the confusion may be that I read several more recent articles that I did not reference. All the information is not contained in the 1996 articles from the linked website. All the data ran together in my head and some may have been inapporopriately referenced to the older articles in the linked site.

Rushing off to basketball tournament now. Will try to track down more info tonight.

Apologies, Daniel, I think the confusion may be that I read several more recent articles that I did not reference. All the information is not contained in the 1996 articles from the linked website. All the data ran together in my head and some may have been inapporopriately referenced to the older articles in the linked site.

Rushing off to basketball tournament now. Will try to track down more info tonight.

I do not need proof. I believe somone that is in the field and has years of experience. Also I should add, my attention span is getting real bad due to medical problems and the meds I have to take. So when I blurt out forgive "grin". Also the first time I wrote up above I had read just the short article that appeared when you clicked on the link. I did not realize that there was much much more to it.

I appreciate your imput. But I stll want to know>>>> is that unbaited minow traps they were speaking of in one of those articles. It sounded like something different to me. I will go and have a look again.

Thanks again.

Daniel

PS: I mentioned I did not need proof, but I must add, more knowledge is always appreciated. I will check back on this.

Thanks

Edited by nativecajun, 16 February 2009 - 09:39 AM.

Been busy, also suffering attention distraction as well.
Have not dug in to find the other articles yet but the unbaited minnow traps were in the same one that talks about using the fallow cranberry bogs instead of the "cedar swamp and grassy pool" from the 1997 article linked in my first post.
Will add more later.

Been busy, also suffering attention distraction as well.
Have not dug in to find the other articles yet but the unbaited minnow traps were in the same one that talks about using the fallow cranberry bogs instead of the "cedar swamp and grassy pool" from the 1997 article linked in my first post.
Will add more later.

Off subject but what is that fish in you Avatar?

Off subject but what is that fish in you Avatar?

Notropis bifrenatus, bridle shiner.