Have you guys heard about the Tiger Musky fishery in New Mexico? According to the NM Game and Fish/Coldwater fisheries department, the lakes have a tiger musky population of 22 tiger muskies PER ACRE, the largest population of tigers per acre in the US. If you want to read more about it, go to www.tigermuskies.com. The tiger muskies were stocked in 2003 to control the exploding populations of suckers and goldfish in the lakes and just started to reach the 20 pound mark last year. Best of all, it's mandatory catch-and-release fishing. How much better does ig get than that?

That is an unbelievable amount of muskies. This hybrid is known for its insatiable appetite. Can 22 per acre actually be sustainable?

Great to see archaic fisheries management still seems to hang on...

If you fish for muskies that's great, hooray, if you are interested in native fish then it's disgusting.

Great to see archaic fisheries management still seems to hang on...

If you fish for muskies that's great, hooray, if you are interested in native fish then it's disgusting.

Agreed, Im a bird hunter, when im not cleaning fish tanks etc. . and it reminds me of outfits that raise quail, and charge to release a quantity of birds so fat with corn and feed, they can only manage to fly about 20 or 30 feet when they are scared up for the (Hunter) to shoot so he can take home a bag full of (look at all the birds i got today hunny).....Drives me crazy, how can this many huge fish be treated so uncaringly. I really dont like to know about these kind of things when my blood pressure medication is running low.

Great to see archaic fisheries management still seems to hang on...

If you fish for muskies that's great, hooray, if you are interested in native fish then it's disgusting.

What if you like fishing for muskies AND you're interested in native fish?

I don't know any thing about the body of water in question, but I'm guessing it's habitat compromised by humans decades ago. Over populations of goldfish, carp, bluegills etc are not "native". I'd go out on a limb and guess any native species were gone or greatly reduced.
It'd be nice to believe you could just rotenone the lake and restock it with native species only. Unfortunately the reality is the introduced species will probably recolonize quickly, most likely with the help of humans. Either that, or the habitat is so degraded that the natives can no longer survive.
In that scenario, it seems reasonable to make the most of the situation and stock a hybrid that can help reduce introduced species and generate revenue, but which being sterile, can not spread or overpopulate.
Ideally, state revenue from fishing licenses could be used to improve habitat and help threatened native species in other water bodies not so badly degraded.

I wouldn't get too excited about the 22 muskies per acre number. That ain't gonna last! They'll suck up all the forage and start eating each other pretty quick. Not too far down the line it'll be one muskie per acre - one BIG ole' gator of a muskie per acre.

Even better, no muskies per acre in NM.

Even better, no muskies per acre in NM.

These posts tell me one thing: a lack of understanding about tiger muskies. Tiger Muskies ARE NOT voracious predators consuming fish after fish after fish. Scientific studies PROVE beyond the shadow of any doubt that they create better fisheries for other fish. On a recent study conducted immediately after a trout stocking event, only 1 tiger had eaten a trout! Their diets consisted of white suckers and goldfish. A good number of the tigers were found to have empty bellies. Go to www.youtube.com and look up "Tiger Muskies in Montana" and see how the tigers are have created a better fishery for the native game fish up there. In the state of Washington, tigers were tracked through radio tracking during the huge migratory runs of Salmon. As stated by one biologists there in his report, "tiger predation on salmonids have proven to be insignificant, especially when more preferred forage like suckers are more readily available". Tigers are being stocked in ever increasing numbers all across the US, and they are THE BEST TOOL that biologists have to control populations of rough fish that are destructive to native species of fish.

Before you lash out at a fish that anglers, because of their lack of understanding have labeled as "vicious eating machines" or "natural born killers", how much better it is to know the facts before you speak.

Puskie.... The Gentlemen, who posted above me (Excluding Me) Know The Facts, Trust me

That is an unbelievable amount of muskies. This hybrid is known for its insatiable appetite. Can 22 per acre actually be sustainable?

In contrast to this reputation of tigers having a "insatiable appetite", tigers feed once every 2-3 days. In this sense, they're more like muskies rather than pike. Yes, that's alot of tigers. But the lakes had a huge problem with suckers and goldfish that we're destroying the fishing for other native fish. But these native fish have benefitted greatly from the tiger muskies. The goldfish/suckers, for example, we're eating all the eggs of these native fish when they would spawn. Because tigers prefer "schooling" types of fish like suckers, bullheads, carps, etc., they have help control the populations of these destructive rough fish. This, in turn, is allowing the native fish to begin to spawn and reproduce. These native fish are making a come back now and are looking very healthy. Not what you would expect from a fish that people have labeled as a "vicious eating machine", is it?

Puskie.... The Gentlemen, who posted above me (Excluding Me) Know The Facts, Trust me

How much better it is to trust the facts that sound, scientific research PROVE.

What if you like fishing for muskies AND you're interested in native fish?

I don't know any thing about the body of water in question, but I'm guessing it's habitat compromised by humans decades ago. Over populations of goldfish, carp, bluegills etc are not "native". I'd go out on a limb and guess any native species were gone or greatly reduced.
It'd be nice to believe you could just rotenone the lake and restock it with native species only. Unfortunately the reality is the introduced species will probably recolonize quickly, most likely with the help of humans. Either that, or the habitat is so degraded that the natives can no longer survive.
In that scenario, it seems reasonable to make the most of the situation and stock a hybrid that can help reduce introduced species and generate revenue, but which being sterile, can not spread or overpopulate.
Ideally, state revenue from fishing licenses could be used to improve habitat and help threatened native species in other water bodies not so badly degraded.

I wouldn't get too excited about the 22 muskies per acre number. That ain't gonna last! They'll suck up all the forage and start eating each other pretty quick. Not too far down the line it'll be one muskie per acre - one BIG ole' gator of a muskie per acre.

They tiger musky fishery is strictly catch-and-release fishing, the tigers are being raised at a hatchery for stocking. These fish are going anywhere.

Please don't take the comments personally puskie13.

You should realize that NANFA and this forum are all about wild, native fish being well...wild and native. Tiger Muskie in new mexico are neither. I doubt you'll find a whole lot of people that think putting a hybrid fish in a state that has no native Esox to eat other fish introduced to new mexico is a good thing. So we have goldfish and the Esox eats them. Should we next get and exotic bird to eat the Musky? Then an exotic cat to eat the birds? Perhaps an exotic gigantic monitor to eat the cats? Anyhow....I might not call Esox natural born killers but would indeed call them eating machines.

Great to see archaic fisheries management still seems to hang on...

If you fish for muskies that's great, hooray, if you are interested in native fish then it's disgusting.

Scientific Studies prove that native fish species have benefitted greatly from tigers. The rough fish like suckers and goldfish were the threat to native fish, not tigers. It's the suckers/goldfish that we're a "disgusting" site.

Please don't take the comments personally puskie13.

You should realize that NANFA and this forum are all about wild, native fish being well...wild and native. Tiger Muskie in new mexico are neither. I doubt you'll find a whole lot of people that think putting a hybrid fish in a state that has no native Esox to eat other fish introduced to new mexico is a good thing. So we have goldfish and the Esox eats them. Should we next get and exotic bird to eat the Musky? Then an exotic cat to eat the birds? Perhaps an exotic gigantic monitor to eat the cats? Anyhow....I might not call Esox natural born killers but would indeed call them eating machines.

I in no way want to give anyone the impression that I'm taking these comments personally. Yes, folks here DO REALIZE that the tigers are a good thing and it is becoming a quick growing trend in New Mexico. But the thought of calling them a "eating machine" is SIMPLY NOT TRUE. They have benefitted greatly the populations of native fish, that is the point that I just wanted to emphasize.

I could say a lot to this, but am holding back a rant. I will pick a battle here. Suckers, while they may be called "rough fish," are not invasives, and don't need to be culled by non-natives. I don't know about NM, but have done a lot of work in West Texas, and have never caught an out-of-place sucker. I did, however, kill a ton of carp a couple of days ago.

Minnows aren't just "bait fish," either.

So what native game species exactly are benefiting from the Tiger Musky? A quick look through Petersons lists the following species that would be considered gamefish:

Cutthroat Trout
Black Bullhead
Channel Catfish
Flathead Catfish
White Bass
Warmouth
Green Sunfish
Bluegill
Longear Sunfish

It also lists a few native suckers and no non-native suckers.

Aside from the Cutthroat Trout all of the other fish should be able to quite easily compete with goldfish and suckers. As for the trout, there needs are different enough from most of the suckers and the goldfish that if they shouldn’t be in direct competition for resources unless the stream or lake is already degraded beyond good trout habitat which would then allow the goldfish and some suckers to increase.

So again, how is the Tiger Musky benefiting native NM species, especially game species? And what species are receiving the benefiting?

I for one think the consequenses can only be negetive by introducing a top predator into an environment, although I have no clue if Tigers are sterile or not, I can only hope.

Andy

All's ya gotta do is post some references to the studies you mention.
It will be enlightening to those of us with multiple decades of practical experience that flat out contradicts what you're saying.

I'm not a knee-jerk Anti-stocker who can never accept ANY introductions of exotic species. As a Realist living in the industrialized northeast, I understand it's far too late for some bodies of water. Even if all the exotics were to be poisoned, there wouldn't be any native species able to survive the compromised habitats in question. So you can have a big man made lake chocked full of goldfish and other trash fish which are not native and do not contribute any value -to humans or nature. Or you can add a highly desirable sportfish that generates revenue to the state and local region. The native fish are no less screwed no matter which way it goes.
In my area, if you could wave a magic wand and disappear all the introduced species, sportfishing would dry up, along with thousands of businesses that benefit the economy and thousands of dollars of license and tax revenue that might be used to improve habitat.

Having said that, the list of horror stories involving introduced species impacting native species is a long one. You are very unlikely to change anyones' mind on this particular forum [even if you post references to these studies you mentioned]. You'd be better of going to fishing forums, of which there are hundreds. After all, the second "N" in NANFA stands for "Native". Hybrid tiger muskies are not native anywhere on earth. And neither pike nor muskies are native to NM.

Tigers are being stocked in ever increasing numbers all across the US, and they are THE BEST TOOL that biologists have to control populations of rough fish that are destructive to native species of fish.

Suckers aren't destructive to native species of fish. They ARE native species of fish. Compare a sucker's mouth with one of your game fish's. Do they look like they compete for resources? They evolved right along with the other native species and have their rightful place in the food chain.

Okay since this was off topic from the very begining and only going down hill I see no reason this should continue. Discussing native musky from the Green River Kentucky would have been a perfectly acceptable topic, but how great you think the hybrid musky fishery in a New Mexico reservior is not.

Okay since this was off topic from the very begining and only going down hill I see no reason this should continue. Discussing native musky from the Green River Kentucky would have been a perfectly acceptable topic, but how great you think the hybrid musky fishery in a New Mexico reservior is not.

Perhaps to bring the thread on topic, and since this issue is obviously stimulating a very emotional response for you, rather than chase away a new member before he can be enlightened, why not discuss the specific impacts on the specific natives in those specific man made lakes.
Can't get anymore about native fish than that.
Inquiring minds want to know.

And please don't accuse me of being a troller. I may be a fisherman but I never troll.