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Little River, TN Snorkeling

Started by Guest_UncleWillie_* , Jun 03 2009 07:48 PM

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#1 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 07:48 PM

Hi guys and gals.
I have been very busy as a research technician for the University of Tennessee and haven't had much time to post, but I have been checking up on the forum every day or so. Anyway, I am working as a fisheries field technician doing snorkel surveys for Percina burtoni, P. williamsi and Etheostoma cinereum On the Little River. I am also aiding other MS student in crayfish and salamander surveys on the Pigeon River in NC and TN as part of the restoration. I haven't had much time to get good pics, but hopefully one weekend I will post all the good fish pics (I have a ton to sort through).

In the mean time, here are some underwater photos I got on Monday while snorkeling the Little River during some free time. I hope you enjoy!

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E. camurum

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Some Cyprinella galactura following me

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At first, I thought this was another hellbender (we found 8 at one site), but upon furter inspection it is indeed not one! Look at those gills!

Best for last...
P. aurantiaca and his female friend:

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I reckon I'll give a species list of what we have seen so far (snorkeling).

Ichtyomyzon (greeleyi)
Lepisosteus osseus
Campostoma anomalum
Cyprinella galactura
Cyprinus carpio
Erimystax insignis
Luxilus chysocephalus
L. coccogenis
Nocomis micropogon
Notropis leuciodus
N. telescopus
Phenacobius uranops
Hypentelium nigricans
Moxostoma carinatum
Moxostoma sp.
Oncorhynshus mykiss
Salmo trutta
Fundulus catenatus
Cottus carolinae
Cottus sp.
Ambloplites rupestris
Lepmis auritus
L. machrochirus
L. sp.
Micropterus dolomieu
M. punctulatus
M. salmoides
Etheostoma blennioides
E. camurum
E jessiae
E. rufilineatum
E. simoterum (tennesseense or whatever it is now)
E. vulneratum
E. zonale
Percina aurantiaca
P. burtoni
P. caprodes
P. evides
P. williamsi

No E. cinereum!! Arg!
I should have photoshopped the pics, but I have no energy after flipping a kicking rocks for crayfish today.

#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 08:39 PM

Awesome Will! That may be my 3rd favorite river in TN. Definately overlooked for the diversity it has in a relatively small stream and has good access in places. I have met many land owners in that area and had great experiences with them. It can be a pain to snorkel specially below US 411 as you pick up the ag fields towards Maryville. When you hit it right late in the summer when it is below 400 CFS for a week it is a gem. You've got a few darters still to see. I've got 13 species at one riffle/run before and that was without E. cinereum and something else that I can't put my finger on at the moment. There are a few hidden pockets of relict mussel shells worth noting, especially with pictures. If you need some contacts for good places let me know. I essentially sampled almost every shoal from route 33 to the Melrose dam.

#3 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 07:45 AM

That is the shiz-niz-it, man! Thanks for taking the time to post it. I think I'm going to have our new batch of undergrads read this. I've promised them a trip to the fabled land of the tangerine darter this summer.

Todd

#4 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 01:33 PM

Good stuff! I love snorkling and fish watching. I'm envious of you spending your time doing that for work. Great photos, especially the tangerine darters.
Keep your eyes peeled when you drift over those gravel beds. There are lots of ancient projectile points, blades and other artifacts to be found in the creeks where you work. Prolly illegal to pickup on state and federal land but always worth a photo op.

#5 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 02:07 PM

Thanks everyone for the kind words!

Matt, what are you number 1 and 2 favorites in TN? I think can guess of one of them.. Yeah, we are sampling from the GSMNP boundary down towards Maryville. We went out with CFI on Tuesday to try and collect some Duckytail darter nests, but after 5 minutes in the river a good ways below Ellejoy we called it quits. It was too murky - Ellejoy has become a huge contributor to sediment and turbidity. But up above, the water has been great.
We have been able to see a few mussels displaying, and we have also found several relics and one that we are trying to get a positive ID on one that we found stacked up near a muskrat hole(possibly endangeerd - I can't remember what species :neutral:

).
We already have landowner permission for all the access we need, and we also have several spots right off the road. Talk about convenient! We also are trying to stick to the same spots of a study 15 years ago.
Thanks for all the help, I'll holler if we need to find a few more good sites/access!

Todd, I'm sure your student would love (when it warms up a bit!) We will be taking a break from snorkeling for a week and concentrate on salamanders and crays. But when we get back underwater, I will try to snap some more underwater pics if we have time :happy:

- I'll make time.

Mike, We found some real river booty the first day out there - a wallter filled with about 6 dollars in quarters and a $5 bill! Who knows what else we'll find. Yeah, I have been quite spoiled the last 2 summers -working on snorkeling projects. I don't know if I'll remeber what a 'normal' job is like :shock:

#6 Guest_Jeff_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 02:38 PM

Whoa! Purty fish!!!

#7 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 04:00 PM

Going back to the Greenberg 1993 sites? Yup, been to those pretty frequently. Great access at those and other off the road or near the road. I'm sure you saw Lampsilis fasciola displaying, they were pretty common, and maybe Villosa iris. Everything else was very sporadic to rare. If you have pictures of something that is troubling you let me know. There are relics shells of some things that are long gone except for a few Clinch locations.

The duskytails don't seem to be faring too well there. I only found them at two locations, neither of which were the one you'd expect to find them, or the one where the most have been transplanted in the past. The watershed is getting sprawl from Knoxville and Murrrville and the ag practices are a little less than great. It's a shame too. All you here is Duck this, Clinch that, when many of the fish can be found in a smaller stream facing many of the same threats.

#8 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 04:07 PM

All you here is Duck this, Clinch that, when many of the fish can be found in a smaller stream facing many of the same threats.

For river where you have the entire headwaters under complete control, you'd think the remainder would be a conservation priority. Make those danged trout streams work for something!

Todd

#9 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:37 AM

Yeah, Matt. We did see V. iris, and we are 90% we saw Lamsilis fascioloa. I have next-to-zero mussel ID skills up here - I just haven't been in the field much with them here in TN. My only mussel experience was with Wisniewski in the ACF Basin in GA.
Yeah, contribution from agriculture and developement is pretty evident as we travel downstream.
And Like Todd said, you'd think with so many river miles protected by the park, the Little R. could be pristene.
We have had to really pick and choose our days to sample lower sites because of rain and all the runoff. Upper sites aren't too bad after rain, other than fast and high flows.

Edited by UncleWillie, 05 June 2009 - 09:38 AM.

#10 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:14 AM

Well walk on over to the McClung Museum on a rainy day and bone up! I collected both occassionally in the middle reaches, say from the water treatment plant upstream for several miles.

#11 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 02:36 PM

Just a bit of an update and some more pics...
Well, still njo Ashy darters :sad:

We have had decent luck with P. burtoni and williamsi. We have been keeping quite busy, but we have been spending a lot of out time in the Pigeon River in NC and TN. I uploaded some of those pics on the Member Gallery if anyone wants to see some better pics of tangarine darters and some whitetail shiner pics that are so-so.
Anyway, here are a few pics of some more Little River fish. The rest are in the gallery.
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This river shub was so swollen that his mouth was no longer functioning. He was also caught sparring with another chub on the nest.

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A bad pic of some blurry TN shiners. This was taken about 2.5 weeks ago.

I will try to get some decent pics in the next week or so.

#12 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 02:43 PM

Here's a Pigeon River tangarine. This one is one of the clearest pics I have - no editing! :biggrin:

Anyway guys, I have some good news! - I have been accepted into UGA Warnell School of Forestry to work with Cecil Jennings. I will start my classes in the fall and begin working on the Robust Redhorse (Moxostoma rubustum) in the springtime. I had to tell somebody!

Edited by UncleWillie, 27 June 2009 - 02:43 PM.

#13 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 04:20 PM

Here's a Pigeon River tangarine. This one is one of the clearest pics I have - no editing!

Anyway guys, I have some good news! - I have been accepted into UGA Warnell School of Forestry to work with Cecil Jennings. I will start my classes in the fall and begin working on the Robust Redhorse (Moxostoma rubustum) in the springtime. I had to tell somebody!

Congrats! Cecil is a great guy and you'll like all the others working on the robust redhorse recovery committee.
Fritz

#14 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 09:54 PM

I was snorkeling in the Little Pigeon today and yesterday. I thought I saw a tangerine, but I don't think it was, it didn't have the coloration. Does anybody know if Gilt Darters are in the Little Pigeon? I'm going to the Little River tomorrow. I hope to see some greenfins.

sorry for the hijack. Awesome pics and fish.

#15 Guest_Casper Cox_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 10:10 PM

J Blay...
It is awful late and i dont know if you will get this. I would expect Gilts are in the LIttle. Not sure about Greenfins tho. They like colder and higher elevation water. The Little Pigeon at Greenbriar may not be much further away for you. 30 minutes? Map it. Greenfin, Swannoa are there. Very pretty place. Hellbenders. The Little, as you have been told, is super special. I could spend a week there and be content. Tangerines have the black dots on their backs, as pointed out in Petersons. Males are high color just like Willies pics. Females and juvis are more strawish color. High Male Tangerines are in the bolder faster current. Hold on!
Watch for Blotchside Logperch.
Casper

#16 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 10:32 PM

Fritz, thanks very much. I look forward to it. Although some funding has yet to come through, Cecil accepted me so that I can start getting some classes out of the way. I reckon I can also get a start on reading all those papers before next spring!

Josh, good luck tomorrow. You will find some great stuff. But like Casper said, you won't find greenfin - we have been snorkeling miles of stream since April and we haven't seen any. You will plenty of tangerines though. Honestly, we haven't seen many gilt darters, which is a shame.

#17 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 10:59 PM

I must have a some bad information, I have a reference that says Greenfins are common in the the Little and Little Pigeon. That same reference says that Swanannoa are uncommon, and I've seen tons of those in the Little Pigeon.

I'm fairly sure I saw a Gilt in the Little Pigeon. Well....it was different than anything else I saw. What are the chances I will find a Wounded Darter in the Little River?

#18 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:45 AM

What are the chances I will find a Wounded Darter in the Little River?

There is a huge chance. Certain areas are covered up in them, and may be the most abundant darter. I ran into quite a few nests 3 weeks back, but haven't seen any lately. They luve the areas with large rocks that they can get under.

You'll also get to see a good deal of bluebreasts, and then in slow sandy areas you'll see a lot of bluesides. Tell us about it when you get a chance!

#19 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:51 PM

There is a huge chance. Certain areas are covered up in them, and may be the most abundant darter. I ran into quite a few nests 3 weeks back, but haven't seen any lately. They luve the areas with large rocks that they can get under.

You'll also get to see a good deal of bluebreasts, and then in slow sandy areas you'll see a lot of bluesides. Tell us about it when you get a chance!

Well Willie, I was really pressed for time today. I overslept by a couple of hours and by the time I made it into Townsend I didn't have a lot of time left. I didn't see much in that area, mainly Redlines and Snubnose. I netted for a bit and snorkeled for a while. Next time I'm down there (possibly august) maybe you can give me some direction on some better locations. I was really hoping to find a wounded darter today but time was really my enemy. I also stopped in what I think is cove creek between Pigeon Forge and Wears Valley. I found a few redlines and snubnose there, along with Warpaints and Saffrons.

However, yesterday I watched a HUGE whitetail shiner swim with a school of other fish. He was in the Little Pigeon and was at least 6 inches and was showing full blown breeding colors. I wish I had an underwater camera, it was amazing. This was my first experience snorkeling and I must say that I really enjoyed it. However, the $12 mask/snorkel from walmart will have to go.

#20 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 10:24 PM

Josh, PM sent. Sorry it's a bit long and tiresome...
You can ask me for locations any time, though I won't be able to join once August gets here. I will only be in TN for about 4 more weeks, then I will be moving. I'm glad you got out and about, and get your first snorkeling experience on the Little River.