Cross Country Transport

I need some advice on moving my fish across country. I’ll be moving soon from Maryland to Burlington Mass, and need advice on how to transport the fish. Google maps says it’s about 8 hrs, but actual experience shows that the NYC area adds about 3-4 hrs to the trip regardless of the time of day (total trip about 11-12hrs). My current inventory is:

6” Pumpkinseed
1.25” Bluespotted sunfish
2 Flagfish
2 Rosy Reds
2 Cory Cats
1 Female Guppy
6 Guppy Fry
Several invertebrates (apple snails, grass shrimp)

I’ve heard about using a cooler to hold the fish, but would a bait bucket work better for the pumpkinseed (to keep her from harming the other fish)? Also, how do I prevent excessive buildup of ammonia, C02, and ensure proper O2 levels in the transport container? Another concern is hostility of the fish under stress, so I plan to separate them. I’ve heard that there are breathable bags for transporting them, but how reliable are they, and where do I get them?

I’ve still got a few weeks to get everything set, including prepositioning a 75 gal Walstad style tank at the destination. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially for the natives as they are my prize fish. Thanks!

Since you're driving, coolers or styro fish boxes will be fine. Kordon Breathing Bags are great for mailing small fish, but in this case I wouldn't bother with them. If theres a way to run well-cycled sponge filters in the coolers while you drive that's ideal, but if not you can just drop the sponges or any other cycled filter media in the cooler and let them slosh around with the fish. Fortunately you're moving in cool weather, not summer. For the big sunfish, I'd let him cool down outside the day before travel. Plants, either live or artificial, will help keep them calm and reduce aggression. Plants cant photosynthesize in the dark, but they CAN still uptake ammonia, so they are beneficial in the transport container. And look for shady places to park if stopping more than 20 min or so.

I need some advice on moving my fish across country. I’ll be moving soon from Maryland to Burlington Mass, and need advice on how to transport the fish. Google maps says it’s about 8 hrs, but actual experience shows that the NYC area adds about 3-4 hrs to the trip regardless of the time of day (total trip about 11-12hrs). My current inventory is:

6” Pumpkinseed
1.25” Bluespotted sunfish
2 Flagfish
2 Rosy Reds
2 Cory Cats
1 Female Guppy
6 Guppy Fry
Several invertebrates (apple snails, grass shrimp)

I’ve heard about using a cooler to hold the fish, but would a bait bucket work better for the pumpkinseed (to keep her from harming the other fish)? Also, how do I prevent excessive buildup of ammonia, C02, and ensure proper O2 levels in the transport container? Another concern is hostility of the fish under stress, so I plan to separate them. I’ve heard that there are breathable bags for transporting them, but how reliable are they, and where do I get them?

I’ve still got a few weeks to get everything set, including prepositioning a 75 gal Walstad style tank at the destination. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially for the natives as they are my prize fish. Thanks!

Just to add to Gerald's advice, it would be wise to quit feeding the fish several days prior to the move. This will result in less waste and less stress.

Well, I’d love to run a filter while driving, but unless I can rig it to plug into my car’s plug-in power supply I think I will have to use the plant and filter material. Would water lettuce be a good choice for this? I think I can get some, in addition to the plants I already have.

And thanks for the reminder to not feed them for a few days!

A battery powered air pump would be helpful as well. You can usually find one a walmart for a few bucks.

Also, you may want to put in some leaves/driftwood/rocks. This gives the fish places that they feel like they are hiding in, less stress when they feel secure. However, remember the dangers of rocks/wood rolling and bouncing in the container.

I would use three 2-gallon buckets, each filled 1/3 to 1/2 full and a bag like acquired from the pet store. Place guppies in bag like done by pet store. Depth of water in buckets should limit splash and sloshing. Place pumpkinseed in one bucket and all others in remaining bucket. Aeration for buckets from portable battery powered aerator would be helpfull, especially if long stops expected. Adding a little salt to water also advisable (~2 ppt). Definantly abstain from feeding a couple days pror to shipping. Watch water temperature drop this time of year, and be prepared to deal with ich a few days later on other end of trip.

I'd pass on the rocks and driftwood even the live plants but some yarn breeding mops would give some soft non abrasive hiding spots. Any abrasive items will be risky especially if the fish get startled or bounced around. The sponge filter and battery pump are very helpfull as well. The pumpkinseed is most at risk to damage himself so a few large thick plastic bags like ones the tropical fish stores get fish delivered in with soft towels wrapped around and placed in a decent size cooler or styro should do the trick. By large bags the ones that can hold 3 or 4 gallons of water just fill half way with water rest air. Check occassionally during the trip if a problem or leak occurs then you can correct it, some extra water would be handy too.

Not to discunt what the others are saying, but I don't think that Breather Bags would be a bad idea. With the exception of for the large fish. I ship fish all across the country in Breather Bags, and my losses have been minimal. In all of the hundreds (maybe it's thousands) of fish I've shipped in Breather Bags, I've only ever lost one fish in all of my on-time shipments. And my fish are usually spending 2 to 3 days in the bags. Also, I've had fish in Breather Bags get there a few days late, and the fish are still alive and healthy. So don't completely discount Breather Bags. All of the info you'll ever need about the bags, and an on-line order form, can be found at:

http://www.novalek.c..._bags/index.htm
and
http://www.novalek.c...thing_bags.html

I'd recommend using the 7.5" x 12" (Item#50102) Breather Bags. When you're ready to move the fish, fill the bags with clean, dechlorinated/dechloraminated tap water that is the same temperature as that the fish came out of. With the numbers of fish you listed, you can put all fish of each species in their own bag. Add a water conditioner/stress relieving tablet to each bag. "Bag Buddies" by Jungle Labs work well. Double-bag the fish, but be sure that you don't get any moisture between the bags because Breather Bags don't "breathe" when there's water on both sides of the bag. When you've got all of the fish bagged, put them in a cooler with a vent-hole for air circulation. Be sure to pack other material around the bags that will allow the movement of air in the container. Quarter-inch thick open-cell foam works well, if you can come across it. If you can't, some people use newspaper or styrofoam peanuts to pack around the bags. If you use peanuts, be sure to get the ones that don't degrade when they come in contact with water, for obvious reasons. Now your fish are ready for transport!

The reason that I said earlier that you might not want to put the large fish in a bag is due to its size. If you bought bags of the size 11.5" x 19" (Item#50101), you could put the large fish in its own bag, though.

So, if you use Breather Bags, some advantages are:

• No sloshing water.
• No battery-operated pumps to keep an eye on.
• No running out of batteries if it's a long trip.
• If for some reason you got laid-over overnight, your fish would still be fine.
• No objects bumping-around in buckets.

Just some things to think about.

Brian

I like buckets because always have them, multiple use, and I generally will accompany organisms during transport. Some shipping concerns may not always be about most effecient use of space / weight or high tech methods, but what is easist to do can be a major concern. The buckets could be a way to tranport water to new location, thus enabling a reduction shock associated with changes in water chemistry.

Edited by centrarchid, 21 October 2009 - 05:59 AM.

The breather bags sound like a very good idea. My two cents.

Wow, thanks for all the responses. This takes a load off my mind! I've still got a month before the big day, so now I need to get the long term tank set up.

Breather bags are only good if used correctly. Make sure you understand how to use them - they are different from regular fish bags.

Susan's right. Definitely read up on them before you use them. Again, the info pages about them can be found here:

http://www.novalek.c..._bags/index.htm
and
http://www.novalek.c...thing_bags.html

The most important thing to remember about Breather Bags is that they don't "breathe" when there's water on both sides of the bag. So, if you want to float the Breather Bags with the fish in the new tanks to acclimate them, make sure you've got an airstone in the bag to circulate the water. Otherwise, you can put the fish and bag water in a bucket and do the "drip method". I'll see if I can find a post on the forum about the "drip method" for those who don't know what that is. Toodles!

Brian

I did read the links. Thanks for the info!

The most important thing to remember about Breather Bags is that they don't "breathe" when there's water on both sides of the bag. So, if you want to float the Breather Bags with the fish in the new tanks to acclimate them, make sure you've got an airstone in the bag to circulate the water. Otherwise, you can put the fish and bag water in a bucket and do the "drip method".

Ok this was something I was wondering about. I’ll probably use the drip method to acclimate them. I’m assuming the purpose of double bagging them is to have a backup in case their bag is punctured or otherwise damaged en-route. Should I wipe the bag down to ensure it’s dry before inserting it into the second bag? Is there a better way to dry it?

I guess I have a different take on moving fish than many that have posted. I learned the most important bits from Chip and Dustin. The biggest issue is gas exchange. The easiest way to maximize gas exchange is to maximize the surface area to volume ratio. This is easily accomplished by using coolers and/or big Rubbermaid containers, each with only a few inches of water. I would give the pumpkinseed his own container, since he will need a little more height than the others, and will respire and excrete more too. Split the rest into 2 containers, and close the lids tight enough so they don't splash out too much. If you feel the need, you can get an adapter for your cigarette lighter that will allow an air pump with a regular plug to be used. You can also add a little peroxide to the water when you start the trip. But keep in mind that you will be travelling during a good time of year, and the water will be cool in the containers. Just don't blast the heat in the car. Before I knew better, I once lost a number of fish driving from Florida with 5-gallon buckets.

Regarding hostility and using stress-reducing habitat enhancers (e.g. driftwood), remember that once you close the lid to the container, it will be dark. With little fishy brains, lights are out; no-one's home. You don't list any nocturnal fish in your group. Maybe keep the grass shrimp separate from the smaller fish and fry. The mops Mike suggested could be a nice touch to provide something soft to cushion them, but really, you aren't going off-road here, are you? The bulk of the sloshing will be just back and forth so long as you don't drive like a maniac.

Like Gerald and Nathan said, reduce ammonia stress by putting some of the old filter media in the containers and stop feeding the fish a couple days before. I never,ever put plants into the containers. They respire quite a bit in the dark. On the same line, don't add leaves or other organic matter that will start to break down (they will both use O2 and release nitrogen). Once you get to your destination, just keep up with frequent water changes until you get the new tanks set up.

Chip and Dustin taught me to add a handful of aquarium salt to each container to ward of bacterial infections. I don't have any data, but I like to think the peroxide helps with that as well.

The breather bags are an equally valid idea. They will also prevent stress from sloshing around. They can be nicely packed in cardboard wine boxes with lots of crumpled newspaper to separate them. I do something a little less complicated than drip acclimation or getting an air stone to stay in the bag: I leave them in the same room near the new water (without a heater) for a few hours while they get to the same temperature. Then I open each bag into a small container, and add new water in the amount of, oh, maybe 1/3 of the volume of bagged water (so, if you had 1 cup of bagged water, you would add 1/3 cup of the new water). Let sit for an hour, and repeat a couple times. I then net the fish out and put it in the new tank.

Aside from that, the most important thing is to make sure you put an airstone in the containers when you get to your new destination, and keep up with the water changes until you have time to set up their new home. Oh, and watch for jumpers.

I moved from Georgia to Virginia almost 3 years ago, and that was a 10+ hour drive. Everything went fine doing the above. The only problems I had were from not changing out enough water in the next week before I got the new tanks set up.

Oh - and I've done the drive to Boston from here a few times. My advice regarding the route and travel time is:
1) Get of I95 after Newark and take the New Jersey Turnpike around Philadelphia.
2) Regarding New York is DO NOT go over the George Washington Bridge; take the Tappan Zee Bridge instead. Adds miles, but saves a LOT of time.
3) So long as you can fit under the bridges, take the Merritt Parkway through Connecticut instead of I95, then go up I91 and 84 to the Mass Pike. I95 can be a nightmare in Connecticut. But be careful if you are driving a moving truck. The Merritt Parkway is rather attractive, but there are some low bridges.

Good luck with your move. Try to maintain your sanity!

You'll need:

An medium sized ice chest (10 gal).
A battery powered aerator/air stone.
Zeolite.

Drill a hole in the chest lid big enough for the airstone to drop through.
Two fresh D batteries in your bait bucket aerator (WalMart, etc).
6" of water.
Small scoop of zeolite.

This formula has been good for 10+ days with a dozen 2" sunfish for me, no losses.
I'd say for only one day of travel, you could probably skip the zeolite.
And, don't feed your fish the day before you travel.

Rick

So Brian - What's the point of double-bagging Breathing Bags? (other than that Novalek would like you to use twice as many)? If the inner bag leaks, then the space between the two bags is soaked by the first few drops of water and the fish suffocates. Seems like single-bagging is safer, as half the water could leak out without killing the fish. Have you ever had the inner bag leak and the fish survive?

Breathing Bags do need AIR SPACE between them -- styrofoam packing peanuts are good.

Also beware of hot spots on the car floor/trunk/bed above the exhaust pipe. A friend of mine once overheated a box of fish that way - didnt realize the hot spot in the trunk. Feel around after the car has been running awhile.

I did read the links. Thanks for the info!

Ok this was something I was wondering about. I’ll probably use the drip method to acclimate them. I’m assuming the purpose of double bagging them is to have a backup in case their bag is punctured or otherwise damaged en-route. Should I wipe the bag down to ensure it’s dry before inserting it into the second bag? Is there a better way to dry it?

So Brian - What's the point of double-bagging Breathing Bags? ... Have you ever had the inner bag leak and the fish survive?

For me, the point of double-bagging the fish is to prevent a bag from leaking into the container and damaging the container. However, I do use a "breathing" liner in all of my containers now, so double-bagging may be something I won't have to do now.

To answer your second question, I've never had the inner bag leak and the fish survive. However, in the hundreds of fish I've shipped in breather bags, I've only once ever had the inner bag fail.

Brian

Nativeplanter, thanks for the directions! I tried them this weekend and made the entire trip in about 8.5 hrs.

I also got the 75 gal setup. I still need to add more plants, but it should be off to a good start. I’m much more comfortable with the whole idea of moving the fish now. And if the PS doesn’t make it, I can console myself with a couple of fat fillets!

do you have to worry about fin spines of sunfish or gill razors of perch piercing the breather bag?