Does anybody have a photo of this Orangethroat variant? I was in a small upland stream yesterday and found an odd orangethoart variant like I had never seen before. I found several juveniles and one big one that had a color pattern unlike other orangethroats. I also found rainbows breeding in the same small creek.
Anyways, has anybody here ever photo'd a Longhunt Darter? Based on the area I was in with KY fish listings it could be the Longhunt, or some other variant.
Longhunt Darter
Started by
Guest_jblaylock_*
, Nov 09 2009 01:05 PM
16 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 09 November 2009 - 10:27 PM
Hi Josh,
Longhunt darters are a stigmaeum form, not spectabile. I don't remember where they're at, and unfortunately, the only "paper" where it's referenced is a dissertation. Perhaps someone with a better memory or a copy of the paper will be able to provide that for us.
Edit..
Cumberland River drainage below Cumberland Falls, from Rockcastle River in Kentucky to Red River in Kentucky and Tennessee; appears to be absent from Caney Fork River, but specimens of E. STIGMAEUM reported from lower Caney Fork River probably represented this species rather than the bluemask darter; formerly thought to be sympatric with an undescribed E. JESSIAE-like form, but the single record of the latter is invalid (Layman 1994).
Layman, S. R. 1994. Phylogenetic systematics and biogeography of darters of the subgenus DORATION (Percidae: ETHEOSTOMA). Ph.D. dissertation, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Todd
Longhunt darters are a stigmaeum form, not spectabile. I don't remember where they're at, and unfortunately, the only "paper" where it's referenced is a dissertation. Perhaps someone with a better memory or a copy of the paper will be able to provide that for us.
Edit..
Cumberland River drainage below Cumberland Falls, from Rockcastle River in Kentucky to Red River in Kentucky and Tennessee; appears to be absent from Caney Fork River, but specimens of E. STIGMAEUM reported from lower Caney Fork River probably represented this species rather than the bluemask darter; formerly thought to be sympatric with an undescribed E. JESSIAE-like form, but the single record of the latter is invalid (Layman 1994).
Layman, S. R. 1994. Phylogenetic systematics and biogeography of darters of the subgenus DORATION (Percidae: ETHEOSTOMA). Ph.D. dissertation, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Todd
Edited by farmertodd, 09 November 2009 - 10:30 PM.
#3
Guest_Newt_*
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Posted 09 November 2009 - 10:56 PM
Huh, that's my backyard; I can just about spit in the confluence of the Red and Cumberland from here. I thought our stigmaeum's were just stigmaeum's.
So, no pics of your orangethroat? I'd like to get a better handle on that mess myself.
So, no pics of your orangethroat? I'd like to get a better handle on that mess myself.
#4
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:57 AM
Hi Josh,
Longhunt darters are a stigmaeum form, not spectabile. I don't remember where they're at, and unfortunately, the only "paper" where it's referenced is a dissertation. Perhaps someone with a better memory or a copy of the paper will be able to provide that for us.
Todd
My mistake, I just saw Etheostoma sp. 5 and assumed spectabile since there are so many variants.
No photos of it yet. This one made it to a friends tank (he was actually the one to catch it). I didn't have my camera with me, I hope to get a photo soon. I first thought headwater, E. lawrencei, but it was missing that blue coloration commonly seen on them. Anybody know the list of spectabile variant species in KY?
#5
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 10 November 2009 - 10:24 AM
I just remembered something... Wasn't it what Pat was calling the "thoroughbred darter"? You might search the archive.
Todd
Todd
#6
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 10 November 2009 - 12:35 PM
I just remembered something... Wasn't it what Pat was calling the "thoroughbred darter"? You might search the archive.
Todd
No, the Thoroughbred Darter is commonly found in Lexington KY, I have one of those and this orangethroat looked very different.
#7
Guest_farmertodd_*
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Posted 10 November 2009 - 04:53 PM
Here, I hunted down the reference...
"John's original photo from the Livingston/Rockcastle area is E. lawrencei, the Headwater darter, which is found in the Green River system upstream of the Barren, and also in the Cumberland River system upstream from the Caney Fk (with a few exceptions)."
Todd
"John's original photo from the Livingston/Rockcastle area is E. lawrencei, the Headwater darter, which is found in the Green River system upstream of the Barren, and also in the Cumberland River system upstream from the Caney Fk (with a few exceptions)."
Todd
#8
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 11 November 2009 - 11:46 AM
I had my buddy take a few pics, they aren't great for ID's, but it's all I have. What I notice the most is nearly all blue coloration is missing from this guy's body. I was looking back over some of the other spectabile I've caught and all of them show some kind of blue on the body.
#9
Guest_JohnO_*
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 12:55 AM
Doesn't look headwater'ish to me. One thing I've noted in all the headwater darters I've found, and I've found plenty in those creeks off of the Rockcastle, is the red bands tend to break up into dots towards the bottom, and they don't extend that far into the body, usually stop at the end of the anterior dorsal.
Most interesting. I have to get back down there, I thought there might be something interesting in that particular creek, given its locale. We should have been more persistent that day last summer. You busy this Saturday, Josh?
Most interesting. I have to get back down there, I thought there might be something interesting in that particular creek, given its locale. We should have been more persistent that day last summer. You busy this Saturday, Josh?
Edited by JohnO, 17 November 2009 - 01:01 AM.
#10
Guest_JohnO_*
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Posted 23 November 2009 - 12:46 AM
Okay, here's a slightly better shot of the one I found today. Definitely an orangethroat, but doesn't look anything like the headwater darters I found in the same area. Stripes go further down the body, and they don't tend to break up into dots like E lawrenci does.
Interesting place. Bags of rainbows, and the occasional headwater darter. And then I found only one of these.
Interesting place. Bags of rainbows, and the occasional headwater darter. And then I found only one of these.
#11
Guest_JohnO_*
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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:54 AM
Oh well... I found an orangethroat photo on the UT Austin site that looked a lot like this one, stripes very similar. So apparently this isn't unusual, just unusual in that particular stream.
#12
Guest_natureman187_*
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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:53 AM
Neat fish either way.
#13
Guest_JohnO_*
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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:44 PM
FWIW: E. lawrencei can be found in the Red River area, too... but only in very small tributaries, including one little stream that Josh and I have dubbed "SRBD creek". You can guess what it's loaded with.
#14
Guest_BTDarters_*
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Posted 25 November 2009 - 03:17 AM
Very cool fish!
Brian
Brian
#15
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 25 November 2009 - 10:08 AM
FWIW: E. lawrencei can be found in the Red River area, too... but only in very small tributaries, including one little stream that Josh and I have dubbed "SRBD creek". You can guess what it's loaded with.
Have we found E. lawrencei in the SRBD creek? I seem to remember finding some orangethroat's there, but I can't remember.
#16
Guest_JohnO_*
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Posted 26 November 2009 - 09:56 AM
Pretty sure the are. On my last rather dismal trip to that creek, I found a couple. Didn't look real close, but they had the same breaking up of the red stripes.
Speaking of srbd's, I have to call you soon. Remember that bunch I netted in Fishing Creek? Looks like I got a couple of other shiners or dace, too. Nothing ultra rare, but interesting. What quad was that?
Speaking of srbd's, I have to call you soon. Remember that bunch I netted in Fishing Creek? Looks like I got a couple of other shiners or dace, too. Nothing ultra rare, but interesting. What quad was that?
#17
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 26 November 2009 - 04:39 PM
I would say the closest quad is Eubank.
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