Hey there. You'll have to apologize if I seem a little snippy, but I just had a situation happen with the DFG over the weekend. Apparently most of the field officers (the ones with the guns, tazers, & handcuffs ,that have the ability to actually incarcerate you, seize your property, and fine you), don't know their asses from hot rocks... They are out there enforcing "their" version of what they define the laws as. It's complete BULL!

NAC 503.502 Bait: General authority to and restrictions on capture, transport and use. (NRS 501.105, 501.181, 503.300, 503.310)
1. A person who has a fishing license or short-term permit to fish, or who is not required to obtain such a license or permit pursuant to NRS 502.010 and NAC 502.285, may capture, transport and use bait for fishing or personal use or consumption except that:
(a) The use of any game fish or protected species of fish for bait is prohibited.
(b) Aquatic bait, other than salamanders or saltwater mudsuckers, may be used only in the water from which it is taken.
© Aquatic life may be imported into this State only with the prior approval of the Department.
(d) Aquatic bait and live bait fish may be transported from one river basin to another or from one area of this State to another only as provided in the appropriate regional regulation for the use of live bait fish.
2. A person who possesses bait in accordance with the provisions of this section shall not sell, barter or trade that bait.
3. Any bait obtained from a dealer in live bait fish who is licensed in this State must be accompanied by a currently dated receipt issued by that dealer.
(Added to NAC by Bd. of Wildlife Comm’rs, eff. 1-1-81; A 12-15-81; 12-3-84, eff. 1-1-85; 3-13-97; R109-02, 1-21-2003; R094-03, 10-30-2003)

This law clearly states that a licensed fisherman may , "capture", "transport", and "use", non-protected, non-game fish, for our bait & for personal use or consumption. YET, I had to entertain an armed DFG warden in my living room last night for approx. 10 minutes while I was not only forced to explain myself, but then told that I had to kill the (10)Fathead Minnows ( Pimephales promelas, neither a game fish OR a protected species), that I had collected the night previously. I explained to him the legitimacy of Native fish collecting, and over and over, he just said, "you can't be taking fish......yada yada yada...", even though the piece of paper he was holding said that i could LEGALLY, capture, transport, and personally use NON-PROTECTED, NON-GAME FISH!!! He said, "...now if they were in a bucket on your back porch and they died, I have no problems with that, BUT YOU CAN'T JUST BE PUTTING THEM IN YOUR TANK!!!" So essentially, the waste of natural biological resources here in the state of Nevada is absolutly fine, but the study, and interest in local native biology is absolutly forbidden!!! WTF??? Hey , he's the guy with the gun, and in my house, so what could I say??? I certainly didn't want it to escalate, over (10) Fatheads...

I was then forced to justify, the legitimacy of being able to keep my (4) Central Longear Sunfish, and had it not been for Nevada Code 503.140 which qualifys them as an "Aquarium Fish" and my willingness to fight him on it, and actually dig out my Axlerod Encyclopedia of Tropical Aquarium Fishes, I would have either had to forfit the Longears to him, or provide a $15 permit for each of them, for "Keeping Wildlife" ...

Absolute HORSE****!!!!!

I plan on writing not only the regional DFG biologies director, but my Congressman, and Senators as well, so we can have this statute clearly defined, and not up to the interpretation of field officers, who, "...aren't fish biologists", by their own admission, and who have the authority to enforce this law how they choose to interperate it. Fathead Minnows, Speckled Daces, Paiute Sculpins, Lahontan Redside Shiners, Tui Chubs, Carp, ect... are all NATIVE species, legal & worthy and of collection, in the state of Nevada, and yet individual field officers, have the ability to tell us otherwise. If you buy them from a bait shop, have them in your possesion, and are transporting them, but have a reciept, then you're fine, and was told I could do whatever I wanted to with them. GO FIGURE??? The same minnows, out of the same body of water, and collected in the same fashion, but the dealer's minnows, are "legal", and supposdly the (10) that my son and I collected are "illegal" according to the field officer. Regardless of the fact that they are neither classified as a game fish or a protected species, apparently the State doesn't get their cut when I trap my own minnows???

This makes me want nothing more than to get the BIGGEST tank possible, and LOAD it with HUGE Peacock Bass, and then just RUB IT IN THEIR PROVERBIAL FACES!!! as they stand there in HORROR!!! while trying to make up some bull**** interpretation of some law that would otherwise negate the law that actually permitted it. That would only be strictly out of spite however, and that's not how I roll, but I'd still LOVE to see the look on their faces.

The thing that pisses me off, is that THOSE are the guys with the guns, THOSE are the guys in the field "enforcing"/"interperating" the laws, and THOSE are the guys who seem to know the least about them, and are the least willing to learn about them. Our tax dollars hard at work, keeping the Aquarium Scourge at bay!!!

So, if any of you Nevadans have ANY Gamefish species, DON'T SAY A WORD TO ANYONE, regardless of their legitimacy, or validity of purchase!!! The DFG guys, who clearly don't know what it is that they are "enforcing", will not be any help, and will only try to get a piece of your pie financially, should you attempt to do so. Get a copy of the Axlerod Encyclopedia, as defined in NAC 503.140 H. Axelrod and W. Vorderwinkler, Encyclopedia of Tropical Fishes, 29th ed., 1988. Know it from COVER TO COVER, (trust me, you'll want all of your cards in a row should that knock ever come on your front door.) Whatever you do, make sure that any fish you plan on keeping is IN THIS BOOK, otherwise, DFG's interpretation is that they can charge you a fee for a permit for "The Keeping of Wildlife", and thus "inspect" your tanks at ANY GIVEN time should your fish require permitting... This permitting process also involves the "tagging" or tattooing of an id number to be associated with the fish!!!.

I'm SO PISSED RIGHT NOW, even my ears are red!!! I definately plan on doing some writing of my local officials , local editors of the newspaper, to try and get to the bottom of this, but I will say BE CAREFUL! I'm just glad I actually had done my homework, and knew my legal rights. It's unfortunate however, that your average field officer out there isn't on the same page, and the persons whom it would hurts most are simple aquarium hobbyists who enjoy their native biology. I'm guessing poachers, illegal commercial harvesters, and folks actaully introducing invasives are a far bigger problem than any group of aquarists could ever be, but tragically, they still see us in the same light.


All the Best,
Ben.

Perhaps you should also have on hand a copy of "American Aquarium Fishes" (Robert J. Goldstein).

What was he doing in your house in the first place? Around here, they don't go house to house inspecting aquaria.

I don't think it's necessary to get "clarification" of the statute - it's pretty much crystal clear as written. It sounds to me like it's time for a lawyer. Did you get the guy's name?

Perhaps you should also have on hand a copy of "American Aquarium Fishes" (Robert J. Goldstein).

What was he doing in your house in the first place? Around here, they don't go house to house inspecting aquaria.

When he checked to insure that my son's and my licenses were valid, he took down our information. The surprise visit the next afternoon, was so that he could not only get me to "kill" said "illegally" collected Fathead Minnows, but also to either confiscate my Longears, or get me to permit them. (Which subsequently would mean TAGGING or TATTOOING the fish with a 5 digit number to start with the initials NV) ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!!! NOT MY FISH!!! I figured that by being as transparent and honest in the field, as I was, that instead of being treated like poachers, we would have just had to show our licenses and be on our merry way. Apparently "his" interpretation of the law is the way he sees fit to enforce it. I have all of his contact info, and am just trying to figure out the proper authorities to take this matter up with. Honestly, I think the whole thing is just this field officer's "power trip", and frankly I don't feel like I should have been any part of it.

If I would have just shot (20) head of deer, out of season, with an assault rifle, I would expect this kind of treatment, but what we're literally talking about here is (10) LEGALLY collected Fathead Minnows!!!

The state actually does make a cut when you trap your own fat head minnows because you have to have a fishing license.

also i am unclear as to if they made you euthanize the fathead minnows.

Your story is disturbing in more ways than one, I hope that you will take the time to write letters to your local DFG (what does it mean anyway, in Alabama we have the DNR which means Dept of Conservation and Natural Reasources), I would also send letters to your state office, and Congressional Representatives. From the information you have described it seems to me that you have been harassed, please do not stand for it.

Sounds like harassment to me. I'd look into a lawyer. That was just wrong.

Aquatic bait and live bait fish may be transported from one river basin to another or from one area of this State to another only as provided in the appropriate regional regulation for the use of live bait fish.

Umm how does this apply here? I feel there are parts of this story not being told.

He quoted the whole statute to provide context, not just the relevant part. The section you quoted just says that a permitted bait dealer may transport live bait for sale outside the drainage where collected, and DNR may stock fish wherever they feel like it.

For future reference, you're under no obligation to let a guy in your house just because he has your address.

Umm how does this apply here? I feel there are parts of this story not being told.

They were not being used, or introduced in or into any other drainage than from where they were captured. Not to mention. the drainage where they were captured, and where I reside are one in the same. I think this applies to capturing them in one drainage, and them actually being used as bait, or introduced into another drainage. Neither of these was the case if they were to reside in my aquarium.


hmt321,
DFG= Department of Fish & Game.



gzeiger,
my wife panicked when she saw an armed guy in a uniform, and she opened the door for him. In the future, I will leave the gate locked, and he can leave me a letter at the mailbox if he wishes to furthur correspond on the matter. But in the meantime, I think I've got the appropriate person(s) for whom to write about this matter at the local and State DFG offices.


It just bums me out that Native fish enthusiasts are looked at no differently than poachers, or those introducing invasives, and if there was ONE group out there that cared more about the ethics involved, it IS North American Native Fish Keepers of NANFA.

They were not being used, or introduced in or into any other drainage than from where they were captured. Not to mention. the drainage where they were captured, and where I reside are one in the same. I think this applies to capturing them in one drainage, and them actually being used as bait, or introduced into another drainage. Neither of these was the case if they were to reside in my aquarium.

That is all I wanted to know.... I'm aware of Nevada laws and it can get tricky at times to interpret them with the intention defined . Your really not saying what region your from so it is not clear if the transport and capture restrictions further outlined by the above provision applied or not.

The possession guideline still remains constant if you use them for Bait or not. Nevada law also really does not allow you to keep Native fish for the purpose of Aquaria use without permit. It allows certain use (Bait or food) but it does not define Aquaria possession as a use. This is how they have structured their laws. If they make sense or not is not really relevant. They are what they are. Many states are like this and your not alone in it.

One of the reasons NANFA exists is to examine these issues and Laws and hopefully change them to a more logical and end user friendly design. As it stands though few states have recognized Native fish as a hobby. Native fish are viewed in one of Three ways.. Game, Bait and Protected. That is it.... Sorry but this is the reality.

Getting all upset and throwing a fit about a DFG officer doing their job is not productive. If you are going to write DFG officials explain your points as a hobbyist interested in Native fish and leave the ranting out. Let them understand there is a subsection that Values these fish as more than Food or Bait. Leave out the above incident as you will more than likely just sour the situation more. Express your concerns but do not dwell on "Power hungry bastard DFG guy"... You do and your voice is about as good as a cricket chirping in winter from inside a shed...

I understand your frustration greatbasin but as brooklamprey said many states are like this, I lived in Colorado for a long time and tried fighting this battle, writing letters, emails, etc. I never got anywhere, I did get responses and all where the same, in colorado it is illegal to catch and keep any native fish. While Colorado didnt outline the legality in the fishing regulations they did have other listings in state animal regulations which outlined illegal wildlife/ exoctics that made keeping native fish illegal so you may want to check into that.

I am not a lawyer but I will play devils advocate for a minute while it states they can be used, possed and transported it also says they can only be used in the body of water they where captured, so in the Game wardens eyes you may have been keeping them to use elsewhere. It also says purchased minnows must be accompanied with a dated receipt, my assumption is that is to ensure you didnt take them home and possibly introduce then to foriegn parasites or disease that may be present in your tanks.

Hopefully you wont run into that same game warden next time.

Edit: I did find this website that has specific restrictions http://www.leg.state...AC/NAC-504.html . I read through it a little bit and I (the average guy)cant tell if you were within the law or not so you may want to cite this as a reference in correspondents to the DFG. I also noticed Nevada seems to have both a DOW (dept. of wildlife) and DFG and both have law enforcment links so are they the same agency?

Edited by brian1973, 12 November 2009 - 08:54 PM.

over 10 fathead minnows that's so screwed up if you ended up being right- you got a good case to bring up to the court

they got better things to do!

GreatBasinBenji,

I have to throw in my 2 cents, and I think you should fight this. From the laws as you have described them, "personal use" is allowed. I don't know how keeping fish in an aquarium at home would be deemed as anything other than "personal use". Don't be discouraged. You never know if you can win the fight if you don't try! Just my opinion.

Brian

And next time when they knock the only thing you're obligated to say is "yoo hof vorant?"

over 10 fathead minnows that's so screwed up if you ended up being right- you got a good case to bring up to the court

they got better things to do!

Are they aware that fatheads are a species sold in the local petcos in many places, and not always just the rosy red ones?

If so how can he tell you did not have petstore fatheads?