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need ID for a fundulus sp. and a catfish

Started by Guest_trojannemo_* , Jan 03 2010 01:07 AM

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21 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_trojannemo_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 01:07 AM

hey guys. went on another collecting trip (thread above in the collecting board) and came up with a couple of unknowns.

i've caught F. chrysotus and F. confluentus, and these didnt look like either.
the bigger one had an eye-like mark on the dorsal fin. I also noticed that they were probably one of the most difficult fish to photograph because they insisted on putting their bodies straight, rather than lay sideways like most fish do when they're in my hands

also need help with this catfish caught on cast net.
I've caught walking catfish near this location, so I assumed that was it at the time, but the fish had a very deep body, a brown coloration rather than black, and was covered in spots, whereas the walking catfish i've caught before have been all black.
so what fish is this?
Posted Image

while i'm at it. i noticed this Gambusia had a distinct pattern to it. it was a perfect "half-black" coloration.
is this an established melanistic form (i've never seen it?) or was this a one-off type of thing?
Posted Image

and last, if this is a bluegill, then why does it have so much green? if not a bluegill, then what is it?
Posted Image

thanks guys!

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#2 Guest_CATfishTONY_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 09:21 AM

this is just off the hip but im going with

1-bull minnow- fundulus grandis
2-ictalurid- but i am just not sure if its a bullhead/ameriurus from the pictures view
3- no idea on color type
4-plain old bluegill L- macrochirus

Edited by CATfishTONY, 03 January 2010 - 09:26 AM.

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#3 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 10:31 PM

1 don't know
2 Brown Bullhead
3 half dead mosquitofish
4 Bluegill

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#4 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 10:54 PM

I don't know my coastal topminnows too well, but I believe that is the "bullminnow" or Gulf killifish, F. grandis.

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#5 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:08 PM

I'd go yellow bullhead (A. natalis) on the catfish due to the pigment-less barbels on the chin.

I'd agree with the other id's, esp the half dead gambusia lol.

Bluegill are quite variable, but no other sunfish will have that spot in the soft dorsal like that (you can kind of see it blotched up).

Todd

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#6 Guest_trojannemo_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:13 PM

I'd agree with the other id's, esp the half dead gambusia lol.

so as they're dying they get that coloration?! i swear that looked like the half-black coloration on angelfish!

thanks for the IDs.

we're at either Brown or Yellow Bullhead for the catfish; Fundulus grandis for the killifish; and plain old bluegill (green variety :tongue:

) for the sunfish...

any more guesses?

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#7 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:18 PM

You'll find melanistic males that look anything from dalmatians to jet black. But yeah, half the chromatophores bleached out and the other half fully fired on any fish... The weight on your cast net probably smacked him in the head or he get in betwixt the mesh on the net and got a little rough handling.

You take great photos, btw

Todd

Edited by farmertodd, 03 January 2010 - 11:18 PM.

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#8 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:44 PM

The lack of pigment on the chin barbels does suggest yellow bullhead but the depth of the body and the mottled pattern on the side both say brown bullhead... So I would have to say after Todd pointed that out I am unsure. This combination of characters does not add up.

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#9 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:52 PM

I've seen other pictures of S. Florida bullheads that didn't quite line up with any particular species. I think they're just odd down there.

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#10 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 09:38 AM

I have only observed that Gambusia coloration in fish that have been bitten and released by my pickerel.

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#11 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 11:18 AM

I disagree about the killifish. The killies shown are colored up F. confluentus. Grandis do not show the ocellus in the dorsal so clearly, especially when they are colored. They also have a different body shape. Also, grandis would show colored fins, especially the anal fin and have a margin on the caudal fin if they were this colored. There is no hint of this on these fish.

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#12 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:25 PM

I was wondering about the ocellus, which was the first thing I noticed. I immediately thought heteroclitus because of that but I knew that the collection was too far south. I didn't have a chance to look it up and be sure but I couldn't remember if grandis has an ocellus. If not, Dustin is right and it's confluentus.

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#13 Guest_trojannemo_*

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 02:44 PM

the reason i've been hesitant to consider F. confluentus is that I was previously told another fish was F. confluentus, and I find the two fish to be very different...

I was told this was F. confluentus:

Posted Image

these two, and the original two fish posted above look very different to me!

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#14 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 02:58 PM

Those are confluentus too. Notice even with the differences in color, the mottling on the back and the occellus remain the same. There really is a ton of difference between breeding and nonbreeding coloration in many fish. Wait until you see a yellowfin shiner in color. Many of the killies undergo a pretty dramatic change in coloration. I have caught confluentus that looked like they glowed from within and others that were very mottled brown and not at all special.

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#15 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:11 AM

the bigger one had an eye-like mark on the dorsal fin. I also noticed that they were probably one of the most difficult fish to photograph because they insisted on putting their bodies straight, rather than lay sideways like most fish do when they're in my hands

What Dustin said.

Also, the next confluentus I see in a net laying on its side will be the first ... they ALWAYS orient dorsal side up. Uncanny. I'm sure out of water they must have a flat triangular cross-section, they're like loaded dice that roll nothing but sixes. I have a spot where I seine brackish killies and misc other stuff. All the similis are on their sides, all the grandis are on their sides, all the CV are on their sides, all the Adenia, all the mollies, the drums, all the mini-mullets .... and every fish on its belly, dorsal side up, ends up being a confluentus once I can flip it around enough to see it.

Yours are nicer than what I see up here though.

Edited by Doug_Dame, 05 January 2010 - 02:12 AM.

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#16 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 10:14 AM

I will have to write this stuff down. I've been having to go by pictures and fragmentary ID info that distinguishes between some but not all coastal killies. I want to get a good handle on them before I visit the coast again.

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#17 Guest_choupique_*

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 12:55 AM

I am going with Dustin on the confluentus on the killis also. Females are brown with the bands, males with the pretty blue spots, one of the nicest brackish killis to keep, easily adapt to hard freshwater. I kept them in my garden ponds years ago. Soft acidic water they did quite well, but moving them indoors and the same water conditions in addition to stress was too much, and they all got bacterial infections.

Decent big male conflues look enough like grandis, but are much more colorful and the colors are arranged more nicely. I am biased, I just love the eye spot on the dorsal.

Last I read, confluentus was dropped and they are all pulverus [sp?]. I had both over the years, and the difference seemed more so than grandis/heteroclitus, but as much as diaphanus diaphanus vs. diaphanus menona. Confluentus were the nicer of the two, a bit nicer coloration in my opinion - with the variation in males from white edged fins to deep orange. The clincher was they were much easier to keep in freshwater, and more friendly in the fish tank.

Brown bullhead. They can have light barbels on the chin, not common - usually a dusky color, but I can easily imagine them that way. The husky body instead of a more long body and the overall coloration scream brown bullhead. Even big yellows like I caught this summer out on the marsh, they are bulky but over all have a long look to them.

Ditto on bluegill ( does have a nice green sheen to it) and the gambusia.

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#18 Guest_trojannemo_*

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:58 AM

thank you for the help with the IDs again.

just to clarify, from the second set of pictures of F. confluentus, the one with the strong vertical bars is a female or male? from the original batch, the one with the ocellus is the male?

if the catfish above is indeed Brown Bullhead (which it seems to me), then what is this juvenile, that I was previously told was brown bullhead as well?

Posted Image

thanks

EDIT: this is the link I had used to "confirm" the id of the above catfish - http://www.flmnh.ufl...wnbullhead.html

Edited by trojannemo, 06 January 2010 - 09:00 AM.

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#19 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:16 PM

I believe that is also a brown bullhead, they often do not have as much of the mottled pattern on their side as juveniles.

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#20 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:26 AM

thank you for the help with the IDs again.

just to clarify, from the second set of pictures of F. confluentus, the one with the strong vertical bars is a female or male? from the original batch, the one with the ocellus is the male?

if the catfish above is indeed Brown Bullhead (which it seems to me), then what is this juvenile, that I was previously told was brown bullhead as well?

thanks

EDIT: this is the link I had used to "confirm" the id of the above catfish - http://www.flmnh.ufl...wnbullhead.html

I have never seen a Brown Bullhead with white chin barbels, and never read about one either.
I would say the first one was a Yellow Bullhead.

As for the second Bullhead:
Florida also has Spotted & Snail Bullheads, what part of Florida did you ceatch the second one?
You can't tell from the photo but the Spotted & Snail Bullheads have a nerrow black edge on the fins.
But if I had to ID it from that photo I would have to go with Brown Bullhead (It just looks funny to me.)

Edited by Mike, 08 January 2010 - 12:31 AM.