DIY Forum/Sub-Forum

I see some cool threads on DIY projects like backgrounds, filters, lighting, nets, etc. What about a forum or sub-forum for native fish keeping/catching projects/ideas? That way they are easier to find vs searching for them?

I must admit this is a topic close to my heart. However, it is a bit of a stretch for this very focused forum. I await comments from other members and forum staff.

I think it's a great idea. "Frugal Solutions" is another subforum I'd love to see -- just all sorts of tips/DIY solutions to avoid paying the hundreds of dollars some do on filtration, lighting, etc. There was a neat thread on that a while back, but a single thread isn't really the best format. I know moderators are hesitant to create a lot of forums, so maybe a combined "DIY Projects / Frugal Solutions" forum?

I'm actually typing up a "Frugal Fishkeeper" column for AC as we speak (type?). Such a subforum would be great for me, as it would give me lots of material to steal share.

The idea has been tossed around before, but the concensus was that there are other forums that are better suited and NANFA should try to focus on the organisms themselves.

The idea has been tossed around before, but the concensus was that there are other forums that are better suited and NANFA should try to focus on the organisms themselves.

I can see that viewpoint. However, this content is already being posted on NANFA fairly regularly, and I haven't seen complaint (Brian's fish room construction series was certainly popular). Creating a subforum would just organize it better so it can be found later. Finding things by search doesn't always work out so well. I'm SO glad that the Live Foods subforum finally got created.

I'd prefer to see this type of peripheral fish-related content stay within the NANFA forum rather than be pushed out to other forums on the web. The NANFA forum isn't just about subject matter -- it's a group of people who have known each other from in-person or digital meetings for years. I value advice given on this forum 10x more than that I'd find elsewhere because I've come to realize that most people here know what they're talking about. The same definitely cannot be said of many mainstream aquarium forums.

Edited by jase, 10 February 2010 - 05:44 PM.

Well Jase, I don't think anyone is pushing these types of posts elsewhere and I don't think lack of a subforum creates an environment that would discourage these types of posts either. Nativeplanter makes a fine point though. This is the NANFA forum not the everything that fits in an aquarium forum. This does not mean we do not share interests with the anything that fits in an aquarium group but specialty forums can quickly drown out their relevance by trying to be everything to everyone.
I don't believe creating a separate subforum every time the fancy strikes us actually helps readers access information. Sure it stuffs it away in a tidy place but the readers should have a format that is easily navigated.
I guess as far as topic organization there are lumpers and splitters....Apparently I'm a lumper
Just because I'm topic lumper doesn't mean I'll always be that way. I can be convinced but the live foods forum is honestly inactive and probably would have been better as a series of Wiki articles. A handful of topics a year should not justify a new forum in my opinion.

In my opinion responses like this are what sets NANFA apart from other forums. No interaction or "branching" conversation whatsoever unless a mod decides it is ok. it sucks for people who like to connect with other people who have similar hobbies in other ways. As soon as a personal post is made (like the one member going through a terrible ordeal), or a casual post about climate, the thread is slammed shut. I can certainly see the logic in avoiding casual discussion forums, and I will not fight for one because they are often abused and the problems that come with these far out way the benefits in most cases. However, ignoring a legitamate request for a new subforum (which would MAKE MODDING EASIER because you would not have to move and combine threads into one thread, humming and hawing over whether it belongs in this section or that section), is somewhat ridiculous. And YES there are times when this forum creates a very discourageing environment.

easily navigated means searching through a bunch of sections hoping to find one that might contain DIY? maybe general discussion...no....maybe collecting gear....no...hmmmmm where to look?

Even besides the fact that we value advice here more than other places, a lot of people llike native fish and native plants, and I think that sometimes it follows a more genuine, authentic, and personal feel to a tank. Many of these people build their own filters and other things for the same reason, and these two hobbies go hand in hand (if you can get my meaning: hands on to get fish, hands on to care...). I think that the people on this forum are a head above other forums in terms of decency and respect to other members, and not abusing the forum.
I agree with jase
A third point, if this forum is so against posting links to other forums, than why not give a new subforum? If I want to have other members opinions on a DIY that I have to post on another forum, I would sure as anything post the link and get them to comment on the other forum so I can get feedback from people whose advice I would heed sooner than others. If there is a subsection for discussing collecting gear, and photography gear like all that photo tank stuff, a DIY subforum is easily in line with the forum.

Thanks

Edited by Burbot, 10 February 2010 - 06:35 PM.

For the record, I have not formed an opinion on the matter. Just giving the history as I remember it.

post your DIY here this one thread lasted 4 pages and was never held back.
show and tell

http://forum.nanfa.o...__1

Edited by CATfishTONY, 10 February 2010 - 08:22 PM.

I will try to address your concerns from my perspective alone.

In my opinion responses like this are what sets NANFA apart from other forums. No interaction or "branching" conversation whatsoever unless a mod decides it is ok. it sucks for people who like to connect with other people who have similar hobbies in other ways. As soon as a personal post is made (like the one member going through a terrible ordeal), or a casual post about climate, the thread is slammed shut. I can certainly see the logic in avoiding casual discussion forums, and I will not fight for one because they are often abused and the problems that come with these far out way the benefits in most cases. However, ignoring a legitamate request for a new subforum (which would MAKE MODDING EASIER because you would not have to move and combine threads into one thread, humming and hawing over whether it belongs in this section or that section), is somewhat ridiculous. And YES there are times when this forum creates a very discourageing environment.

Mods do not in any way prevent branching. I have no clue why so many people think mods are heavy handed to be honest with you. I don't see how mods prevent you from connecting with other people as many people choose to share personal information as a reasonable mix amongst typically native fish related subject matter. Everyone knows I take lots of photos yet that has nothing to do specifically with native fish....There is an appropriate time and place to vent personal and sometimes terrible ordeals. I will promise you the NANFA forum should never be a place where personal matters are the SUBJECT of a topic.

Jase is not being ignored in any way. I gave reasons why I don't think another subforum is appropriate yet made it clear my mind could be changed. I even provided an example of a subforum that is particularly inactive. Perhaps it's you that's ignoring me.

This forum is not designed to encourage anything other than discussion pertaining to NANFA activities and organization, NA Native fishes, their care and subject matter immediately related to NA native fishes. If I come off as discouraging the discussion of personal problems as the topic subject matter, then I am doing my job.

easily navigated means searching through a bunch of sections hoping to find one that might contain DIY? maybe general discussion...no....maybe collecting gear....no...hmmmmm where to look?

So all DIY in one place? I have an idea . Post net DIY in the nets and sampling gear subforum, post photo DIY in he Photo subforum, post neat transportation DIY topics in the shipping and transport subforum. If all are in one place I'll have people complaining they search a relevant forum and a great net DIY topic is stuffed away in another forum.....You see organizing a forum will irritate someone no matter what you do.

Even besides the fact that we value advice here more than other places, a lot of people llike native fish and native plants, and I think that sometimes it follows a more genuine, authentic, and personal feel to a tank. Many of these people build their own filters and other things for the same reason, and these two hobbies go hand in hand (if you can get my meaning: hands on to get fish, hands on to care...). I think that the people on this forum are a head above other forums in terms of decency and respect to other members, and not abusing the forum.
I agree with jase
A third point, if this forum is so against posting links to other forums, than why not give a new subforum? If I want to have other members opinions on a DIY that I have to post on another forum, I would sure as anything post the link and get them to comment on the other forum so I can get feedback from people whose advice I would heed sooner than others. If there is a subsection for discussing collecting gear, and photography gear like all that photo tank stuff, a DIY subforum is easily in line with the forum.

There is nothing to prevent you from posting a filter DIY topic so please go and post it!
This forum is not at all against posting links and honestly don't know what you're talking about. Links pertinent to matters listed above are always welcome. I'll admit that recently a cross link to another forum about an ID was flat out silly and should never have been posted and therefore I asked that we refrain from cross linking fish forums as it seemed to be a trend. My reasons are simple. The NANFA forum receives top rank when searching the subject matter and as we see in the recent case, the person just grabbed a photo from another site posted it...we later found the person provided 100% inaccurate information. These threads are useless as we cannot interact with the author of the post (which we presume to be the photographer as well). Long and short of this IMO is...if people really want an ID, they can sign up in less than a minute and post their questions here. We really don't need to instigate a board war over cross forum links (as has been done in the past).

Dear NANFA forum members....when this forum was started, we wanted a place to get away from all of the clutter and jibber jabber other forums offered. We hoped to create an unusual forum where like minded individuals could focus their reading and communication on native fish and their immediate subject matter. I can promise you in less than an hour I can create a subforum for every gadget, every tangent you would ever want and have a perfectly useless forum. We could be just like all of the giant tropical fish forums with a little section off to the side for native fish! This forum is designed to be a specialist among the countless forums that offer discussion of every pet you could think of and every method to keep them. Sure some of those forums are great....but this forum will likely never be the place for reefkeeping.

Dear NANFA forum members....when this forum was started, we wanted a place to get away from all of the clutter and jibber jabber other forums offered.

Why choose to refer to a members suggestion like this? I for one think lozgod's suggestion was at least worth considering. He makes good points about how DIY is stashed all over the place in peoples posts in random threads, when slipping it in the show and tell would be easier.

We hoped to create an unusual forum where like minded individuals could focus their reading and communication on native fish and their immediate subject matter. I can promise you in less than an hour I can create a subforum for every gadget, every tangent you would ever want and have a perfectly useless forum. We could be just like all of the giant tropical fish forums with a little section off to the side for native fish! This forum is designed to be a specialist among the countless forums that offer discussion of every pet you could think of and every method to keep them. Sure some of those forums are great....but this forum will likely never be the place for reefkeeping.

I thought I was pretty clear on my stance for casual subforums. Of course not everything should be discussed here. I am NOT defending personal discussion. I mentioned how it is unfortunate that there is no casual discussion, but I understand that this is a professional and specialty forum and would likely suffer from it. I think maintaining focus is a great thing, for the sake of this site's quality.
I would be careful about the emboldened phrase...

So all DIY in one place? I have an idea . Post net DIY in the nets and sampling gear subforum, post photo DIY in he Photo subforum, post neat transportation DIY topics in the shipping and transport subforum. If all are in one place I'll have people complaining they search a relevant forum and a great net DIY topic is stuffed away in another forum.....You see organizing a forum will irritate someone no matter what you do.

where do they post filters, backgrounds and other stuff? I would like to know how many people will be irritated by a DIY section. The fact is people have to think twice here about posting, which is a blessing compared to other places that allow anything to go. Please do not encourage topics if there is no designated place to post them. It is a convenience for members and mods. Actually, why not create one and then only you can put stuff there? You can lump and move whatever you want, but the info will be organized. No one else can post there. And about cross forum posting, if you honestly have no idea what I am talking about when I say that it is discouraged here...

Edited by Burbot, 10 February 2010 - 10:51 PM.

I have an idea. Post net DIY in the nets and sampling gear subforum, post photo DIY in he Photo subforum, post neat transportation DIY topics in the shipping and transport subforum. If all are in one place I'll have people complaining they search a relevant forum and a great net DIY topic is stuffed away in another forum.....You see organizing a forum will irritate someone no matter what you do.

You make a very good point here. When you have content that could be categorized in a number of different ways, you just have to pick the one scheme that seems to make most sense. One could certainly make a case for a "Raising Eggs/Larvae/Fry" forum, but that content is covered well within each of the fish family groups and breaking it out separately would be a mistake.

I can be convinced but the live foods forum is honestly inactive and probably would have been better as a series of Wiki articles. A handful of topics a year should not justify a new forum in my opinion.

Live Foods doesn't have a ton of activity, but I wouldn't call it inactive (18 topics and over 100 replies last year). Personally, I think it provides a great resource for someone just getting into raising live foods or considering culturing new species. If it wasn't broken out as it is now, it would be be quite difficult to find that information with search alone. I don't think value of new forums/subforums should always be based on how much traffic they'll get, but rather by how distinct the subject matter is from other general discussion. If you went just by numbers, you'd want to kill the Breeder's Award Program forum, all the State Regulations forums, the West Local Edition forum, and probably the Pygmy Sunfishes forum.

I really don't feel too strongly about a DIY Forum. If moderators/administrators were inclined to split things out further, it could be an interesting one. If you prefer to keep all that in the one big catch-all forum of Captive Care, that's fine with me, too. I think the Forum is great as it is, but I do think it should always welcome constructive discussion about possible changes. And, as always, I thank the Administrators and Moderators for all the work they put into it.

Edited by jase, 10 February 2010 - 11:59 PM.

I really don't feel too strongly about a DIY Forum. If moderators/administrators were inclined to split things out further, it could be an interesting one. If you prefer to keep all that in the one big catch-all forum of Captive Care, that's fine with me, too. I think the Forum is great as it is, but I do think it should always welcome constructive discussion about possible changes. And, as always, I thank the Administrators and Moderators for all the work they put into it.

I believe the forum is always open for constructive discussion of any kind. This is the third time, if I remember correctly, that a DIY subforum has been brought up. And I suppose the administration hasn't yet been convinced that it is necessary. From the original setup, I believe we added "Native plants", "FW Native Invertebrates", "Employment, Intern and Volunteer Opportunities", and "Live Food Cultures". I believe "Captive Care Discussion" was also an addition from the original forums. "Breeders Award Program" was added by the administration trying to push that NANFA program but can probably be tucked under "NANFA Organization" since it has once again become inactive. But it shows the forum is willing to adapt when necessary and appropriate.

Also... When I was doing a lot of administration/moderation on this forum, I would spend hours a week moving posts around amongst the existing forums we have now. Just adding another sub-forum isn't going to make things easier to find or more organized. It takes moderation to do that.

The forum administration learned a long time ago that it wasn't going to be able to make everyone happy. NANFA is a very diverse group made of professionals, enthusiasts, and hobbyists and the administration strives to create a balance between all groups.

Correct me if I am wrong but the majority of posts here are more of the nature regarding native fish keeping vs. native fish. It is definitely sub forum material, not a dedicated forum IMO. The idea struck me when I was trying to find someone DIY background for their aquarium that I stumbled across and then no matter how creative I got with the search button I couldn't find it again for the life of me.

It is frustrating at times how narrow the conversation has to be on here. It is a community of people with something in common. Several people have bonds off the board and go on collecting trips together, etc. It's really very cool that there is a board like this but the whole "talk about fish or don't talk at all" is really Nazi'ish IMO.

Sorry for going off topic but that has been eating at me. However I have come to accept it and post elsewhere the majority of time I am online. I wonder at times how many people are discouraged from actually joining or participating in the forum because they only have so many fish related questions or comments.

Wow, great historically out of context and inaccurate comparison. It is a fish related forum, get over it. The common thing about this community is North American Native Fish whether you are a member of the association or not. This is not the only form of communication possible between humans. Way more than several of us have personal bonds. I've known people here for yeras before this forum was made. I employed one, I've worked with one, and I almost worked with two people on multiple occassions. When I want to talk to Drew I send him an email or pick up the phone and better yet, you can use a personal message to whomever you want to talk to about whatever you want without leave the NANFA forum. How do you think collecting trips were organized prior to the board and continue to be organized? This isn't a chat room, it's not a place to shoot the crap about the weather so I don't see the problem if people don't join that don't have anything to contribute to N.A. native fishes. We had a chat room long ago, it got almost zero use and it went away. What two of the most fervent arguers for this DIY forum don't get is that this was discussed multiple times for weeks years before you signed up as forum users. I'd have to say you're both completely wrong about the suggestion not being considered, it just was not considered seriously because that bridge has been crossed two times already.

where do they post filters, backgrounds and other stuff?

Captive care discussion.

I would like to know how many people will be irritated by a DIY section.

You can make a poll if you feel it's important.

And about cross forum posting, if you honestly have no idea what I am talking about when I say that it is discouraged here...

Cross forum posting I have discouraged but previously it was suggested links are not allowed. It's hard to find the time refute much of the conceptions (misconceptions) about the forum to be honest.

Burbot you're coming off as just taking jabs at the staff here to be honest. You say you're not for people posting personal problems but you complain about us slamming a thread shut when it happens. You act as though you cannot possibly post a DIY topic about filters when it's pretty obvious such discussion is welcome. I'm sorry but I cannot make this forum the ideal place for everyone's individual taste. I can only help organize and manage the forum the way I think it was intended from the start which seemed well received at the time. No doubt this forum is different and many will have some culture shock when participating here if they visit other fish forums. I hope they will understand what we are trying to do and accept this format as a slightly more mature and focused format than others.

Loz....I know it's frustrating to those that participate primarily of big tropical boards (or places that are more interested in post count and forum ranks). I also understand the search function can be frustrating at times. I can't stress enough that threads should have an accurate description in the tittle and placed in the proper location. This is a big hurdle and many threads are doomed for this reason alone. When trying to find a particular DIY thread (or any particular thread), I would suggest using the advanced function and filter by member name. I know Brooklamprey (Richard) made a great background thread....perhaps that's the one you're looking for.

It's really very cool that there is a board like this but the whole "talk about fish or don't talk at all" is really Nazi'ish IMO.

As I was saying, constructive feedback should be welcomed. Describing something as "Nazi'ish" is never constructive.

I also understand the search function can be frustrating at times. I can't stress enough that threads should have an accurate description in the tittle and placed in the proper location. This is a big hurdle and many threads are doomed for this reason alone.

Well said. The subtitle can help further clarify a title, but the title needs to be able to stand alone as the subtitle isn't shown in all contexts. I often find it's better to use Google to search the forum than the native search feature. E.g. "DIY forum site:forum.nanfa.org". Google has recently tuned search results specifically for forums and can even tell you how many posts/authors are in a thread.

I believe the forum is always open for constructive discussion of any kind.

I didn't mean to imply that it isn't currently open, just hoping it remains so. It's certainly up to both the members and the staff to ensure any such discussions remain as civil as possible so that others aren't dissuaded from making their opinions heard.

I need to apologize for the poor choice of words. I also see the counter points as well.

What about stickies? What is the criteria for something to be worthy of being stickied? If something is relevant to the forum it is posted in, informational, and would be of good use to all then would that be worthy of being stickied?