The LFS has a tank full of these neat looking fish. Looks like a smallmouth bass but is a livebearer. Do these actually qualify as native American fish?

Dean

Ameca Splendens are beautiful fish. I have a breeding colony of these guys in my 29 gal and love them! They are great fish! They are not North American native fish. They are a Central American native fish. They are from Mexico. They are actually extinct in the wild and need help in preservation.They are in a family called Goodeids. They are definitely worth having and saving from extinction. They are fin nippers like Tiger barbs and from what I have heard they have a thing against and will kill Corydora catfish. Unlike Guppies, Swordtails,Platies, and Mollies.The females cannot store sperm and have to matings in order to become pregnant. Their fry are a lot bigger then other livebearers. They are 2 cm when born. I hope this helps!

They qualify as North American native fish, not U.S. native fish, because they're from Mexico. I did a column on these for American Currents awhile back. They're a nice goodeid, and reach a decent size, actually--about 4 inches. You shouldn't let them get above 80 degrees, however, as it may cause them to be sterile. http://www.gsas.org/...ca-sanford.html

I kept them briefly, years ago before moving them out. I recently acquired a half dozen young when I learned that they eat duckweed. Right now, I'm growing them out with miscellaneous cichlids. I think they'd be too rough for my enneacanthus, but I'm thinking they'll do a good job of cleaning up after my african/central american cichlids and will be tough enough not to get killed.

The LFS has a tank full of these neat looking fish. Looks like a smallmouth bass but is a livebearer. Do these actually qualify as native American fish?

Dean

They qualify as North American native fish, not U.S. native fish, because they're from Mexico. I did a column on these for American Currents awhile back. They're a nice goodeid, and reach a decent size, actually--about 4 inches. You shouldn't let them get above 80 degrees, however, as it may cause them to be sterile. http://www.gsas.org/...ca-sanford.html

I kept them briefly, years ago before moving them out. I recently acquired a half dozen young when I learned that they eat duckweed. Right now, I'm growing them out with miscellaneous cichlids. I think they'd be too rough for my enneacanthus, but I'm thinking they'll do a good job of cleaning up after my african/central american cichlids and will be tough enough not to get killed.

I've kept a couple of them in a tank with Enneacanthus chaetodon for algae control. They did fine, and didn't bother the sunnies. Admittedly, they were smaller specimens. Larger ones would probably cause some issues.

I've kept a lot of different goodeids. At one time I was going to the local (Ohio) fish club auctions and some folks were raising them. Most buyers either didn't know what they were or weren't interested, so I was able to pick up a lot of species, cheap. I suspect a lot of folks don't know anything about this group. I didn't, until that fish club experience. They were rarely covered in the literature. Anyway, I found them very aggressive and hardy. It's fun to see the _giant_ liveborn babies. They have some kind of placenta-like organ that nourishes them in the mother's body. I think they'd make great pond fish in the warm months. Some of the species are _quite_ large. It's also cool to keep fish that are extinct or nearly so in the wild. If you get into these, there are sources of fish that won't cost you much -- especially if you have hobbyists nearby who keep them. Due to their obscurity, it's often difficult to dispose of one's excess stock. I think they freak people out because they are livebearers, but act more like cichlids, in terms of aggression. Not what you would expect. Difficult to keep in a community except with other goodeids. Larger tank is better. Ameca splendens (I know as butterfly goodeid) is one of the less aggressive ones. Check the ALA site and Google for more info: ALA By the way, I think the pronunciation is Good-ay-id, accent on the "ay". And that's ay as in a long "a" sound, not eye as in a long "i" sound. Just throwing that out since it's not obvious in English from the spelling. I used to have a very weird pronunciation of cichlid when I had only seen it in books and never heard it spoken. Check out Zoogeneticus tequila. Cool fish! Oh, and learn how to sex them -- the males have a modified anal fin, but different from the poecilid livebearers. Where they have longer rays for their organ, the goodeids have a set of shortened rays that somehow get the job done. Anyway, you can sex them visually that way. Thanks for letting me share!

Mature Ameca splendens are also easier to sex than most - males have a yellow or cream colored margin on the caudal fin, where females don't. Most goodeids are sexually dimorphic similar to Poecillids - males are smaller and tend to be more 'showy.' But like Mark said, looking for the modified anal fin is the best, and most correct, way to tell.

They qualify as North American native fish, not U.S. native fish, because they're from Mexico. I did a column on these for American Currents awhile back. They're a nice goodeid, and reach a decent size, actually--about 4 inches. You shouldn't let them get above 80 degrees, however, as it may cause them to be sterile. http://www.gsas.org/...ca-sanford.html

I kept them briefly, years ago before moving them out. I recently acquired a half dozen young when I learned that they eat duckweed. Right now, I'm growing them out with miscellaneous cichlids. I think they'd be too rough for my enneacanthus, but I'm thinking they'll do a good job of cleaning up after my african/central american cichlids and will be tough enough not to get killed.

I never knew that they could be sterile if the temperature is over 80 F. When I first got mine they had ich and so I treated them naturally by adding salt and heating the tank up to 86 F and all the ich was cured within a week and I lowered the temperature back to 80. All of my tanks are at 80. Could this effect them? At what temperature should I keep my tanks at?

Was that at That Fish Place Dean? I've seen them too and was wondering about them myself.

Mature Ameca splendens are also easier to sex than most - males have a yellow or cream colored margin on the caudal fin, where females don't. Most goodeids are sexually dimorphic similar to Poecillids - males are smaller and tend to be more 'showy.' But like Mark said, looking for the modified anal fin is the best, and most correct, way to tell.

All goodeids are sexable at birth by examining the anal fins.

Was that at That Fish Place Dean? I've seen them too and was wondering about them myself.

Hi Bart, yep, it's That Fish Place. They have three other splitfin species as well.

Dean

Hi Bart, yep, it's That Fish Place. They have three other splitfin species as well.

Dean

Oh wow you are lucky! What other splitfins did they have? I wish I lived near you guys! I am on the lookout for X.captivus they are also known as Green Goodeids or Relict Splitfins.

Looks like the are out of x.captivus but here's a link to what they do have.

http://www.thatpetpl...e=10#resultBody

Edited by bart, 02 March 2010 - 09:48 PM.

Check out the livebearers > wild type category at Aquabid. Always Goodeids for sale there.

Looks like the are out of x.captivus but here's a link to what they do have.

http://www.thatpetpl...e=10#resultBody

Oh ok! Thank you very much!

Check out the livebearers > wild type category at Aquabid. Always Goodeids for sale there.

Oh yeah I visit Aquabid daily. I have only seen them available here and there and when they are everyone gets there before I do.

I always wanted have a colony of Butterfly splitfins in future. I have raised few different species of Goodeids in past but right now I have a colony of Characodon lateralis "Los Berros" and a pair of Yellowtails (the yellow verison of Xenotoca eiseni). I finally got a fry out of Characodon lateralis colony. The reason why I was excited about this fry is that this is first time for a goodeid species that bred in my own tank and give birth in same tank. Usually I got females thats already pregnant from other breeders but not this female as I got her as a fry. Interesting is my Characodons leave this solo fry alone.

I always wanted have a colony of Butterfly splitfins in future

If you are interested my fry should be ready in about a month or two. I can ship you some. Just let me know.

Oh wow! You have very beautiful fish! I love Goodeids and livebarers.

I'd heard from several people that high temperatures would make them sterile, but I'd never been able to verify that. I went on line just now and couldn't find any source to confirm it. In fact, the Wikipedia entry said that temperatures in their natural habitat may reach 85 degrees. Their habitat in Mexico is on an elevated plain, so temperatures tend to be colder than the rest of Mexico. I know that they're fine with temperatures in the 70s down into the low sixties at least. I keep mine at about 72 degrees. I'm guessing that temperatures in the mid 70s would be fine for growing them out and breeding them.

I never knew that they could be sterile if the temperature is over 80 F. When I first got mine they had ich and so I treated them naturally by adding salt and heating the tank up to 86 F and all the ich was cured within a week and I lowered the temperature back to 80. All of my tanks are at 80. Could this effect them? At what temperature should I keep my tanks at?

Something to keep in mind regarding field temperature measurements and thermal tolerance of species is that the measurements are almost always surface temperatures, usually at the edge of the water body. Ponds, lakes, and rivers with slow-flowing pools and/or groundwater seepage can have thermal refuges much warmer or cooler than reported temperatures. So yes splitfin habitat in Mex may reach 85F in places, but if a 75F seep or bottom water is available nearby, then 85F may not be safe for aquarium keeping.

I read something about lake trout years ago that explained how they can survive summers in stratified lakes where the upper waters are too warm and the lower waters have too little oxygen (due to bacterial O2 consumption). They swim back and forth across the thermocline, breathing and feeding in the warmer oxygen-rich water and then cooling off in the oxygen-poor water.

In winter, I suspect many N.Amer fish in flowing streams congregate in warm groundwater seepage pockets under logs, rocks, plant beds, tires, road signs, etc.

I'd heard from several people that high temperatures would make them sterile, but I'd never been able to verify that. I went on line just now and couldn't find any source to confirm it. In fact, the Wikipedia entry said that temperatures in their natural habitat may reach 85 degrees. Their habitat in Mexico is on an elevated plain, so temperatures tend to be colder than the rest of Mexico. I know that they're fine with temperatures in the 70s down into the low sixties at least. I keep mine at about 72 degrees. I'm guessing that temperatures in the mid 70s would be fine for growing them out and breeding them.

Edited by gerald, 05 March 2010 - 12:55 PM.

If you are interested my fry should be ready in about a month or two. I can ship you some. Just let me know.

Oh wow! You have very beautiful fish! I love Goodeids and livebarers.

Thanks but I have to turn down your offer since I do not have any room for Butterfly Splitfins as I live in the dorm. I only have three tanks. One 10gal contained a colony of Rainbow Goodeids, another 10gal hold a pair of Yellowtailed Goodeid and a 30gal housed a large central mudminnow and still wait for a pair of Mud sunfish. I also have a group of Blood Parrot cichlids in 55gal(not mine) in the front office as a display tank.

I'd heard from several people that high temperatures would make them sterile, but I'd never been able to verify that. I went on line just now and couldn't find any source to confirm it. In fact, the Wikipedia entry said that temperatures in their natural habitat may reach 85 degrees. Their habitat in Mexico is on an elevated plain, so temperatures tend to be colder than the rest of Mexico. I know that they're fine with temperatures in the 70s down into the low sixties at least. I keep mine at about 72 degrees. I'm guessing that temperatures in the mid 70s would be fine for growing them out and breeding them.

Oh ok. Thank you very much for the reply and help!

Thanks but I have to turn down your offer since I do not have any room for Butterfly Splitfins as I live in the dorm. I only have three tanks. One 10gal contained a colony of Rainbow Goodeids, another 10gal hold a pair of Yellowtailed Goodeid and a 30gal housed a large central mudminnow and still wait for a pair of Mud sunfish. I also have a group of Blood Parrot cichlids in 55gal(not mine) in the front office as a display tank.

Oh ok. Not a problem. I just thought I would ask.