Snails been a great asset in my tank but since the addition of some large greensides and logperch their numbers are dwindling fast. Are there any snails (native or non) that can survive in a darter tank? Not interested in anything that won't reproduce in fresh water.
Snails for a tank with darters.
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, Mar 09 2010 11:49 PM
14 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:09 AM
Snails been a great asset in my tank but since the addition of some large greensides and logperch their numbers are dwindling fast. Are there any snails (native or non) that can survive in a darter tank? Not interested in anything that won't reproduce in fresh water.
When I collect snails from the wild, I usually go for the largest snails I can find. Also, take about 5+ more than you really want. Usually, for example, if I bring home 10 big ones, I'll end up with 3-4 after my darters have their way with them. The biggest usually survive for a while. You could probably buy those big ones from LFS's, darters will likely leave those alone.
#3
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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:13 AM
I'm pretty sure that there are some trumpet snails in my darter tank, but they're the ones that are completely nocturnal (ones that would come up early were eaten) and I couldn't tell you how many I have for sure.
#4
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Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:01 AM
I'm pretty sure that there are some trumpet snails in my darter tank, but they're the ones that are completely nocturnal (ones that would come up early were eaten) and I couldn't tell you how many I have for sure.
I too have MTS in my darter tank.
#5
Guest_JohnO_*
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Posted 01 April 2010 - 04:08 PM
I still have a few small black snails that Josh and I found in a creek off of the Rockcastle river. Darters won't eat them, maybe they taste foul.
Otherwise, darters in general tend to be expert snail hunters. I've seen them eyeball a snail, then yank it out of its shell in one quick move.
Otherwise, darters in general tend to be expert snail hunters. I've seen them eyeball a snail, then yank it out of its shell in one quick move.
#6
Guest_Okiimiru_*
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 02:24 PM
I have recently added Etheostoma spectabile (orange throated darters) to my 55 gallon planted tank that has an extreme overpopulation of Physa fontinalis and ramshorn snails. (500 or so snails). There are also a couple assassin snails in there and a few ghost shrimp.
I've never seen the darters eat anything, not the flakes I put in or the pellets. But after several weeks they're very healthy. Do you think they're eating the snails? Will they eat the assassin snails or the ghost shrimp?
I've never seen the darters eat anything, not the flakes I put in or the pellets. But after several weeks they're very healthy. Do you think they're eating the snails? Will they eat the assassin snails or the ghost shrimp?
#7
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 05:12 PM
Nerite snails will survive but won't reproduce. Likewise the largest ramshorns.
I was also going to suggest Malaysian Trumpet Snails as a durable and prolific species likely to survive darters. They burrow a lot though, and don't clean glass much if at all, but they turn up the substrate and will keep algae off of sand and clean up fish poop.
Any egg-laying species is going to get the young eaten quickly. You need a live-bearer to have any chance of reproduction. I have an apparently livebearing species that is locally abundant, but I can't ID it and I'm not sure if it's native or invasive. The young seem to start life about the size of a pinky fingernail (haven't seen them born, but they appeared at this size shortly after introduction to the tank) but even at that size they do seem to get eaten more often than not. So far I have no survivors.
I was also going to suggest Malaysian Trumpet Snails as a durable and prolific species likely to survive darters. They burrow a lot though, and don't clean glass much if at all, but they turn up the substrate and will keep algae off of sand and clean up fish poop.
Any egg-laying species is going to get the young eaten quickly. You need a live-bearer to have any chance of reproduction. I have an apparently livebearing species that is locally abundant, but I can't ID it and I'm not sure if it's native or invasive. The young seem to start life about the size of a pinky fingernail (haven't seen them born, but they appeared at this size shortly after introduction to the tank) but even at that size they do seem to get eaten more often than not. So far I have no survivors.
#8
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:32 PM
I have recently added Etheostoma spectabile (orange throated darters) to my 55 gallon planted tank that has an extreme overpopulation of Physa fontinalis and ramshorn snails. (500 or so snails). There are also a couple assassin snails in there and a few ghost shrimp.
I've never seen the darters eat anything, not the flakes I put in or the pellets. But after several weeks they're very healthy. Do you think they're eating the snails? Will they eat the assassin snails or the ghost shrimp?
Snails = darter food
Inverts = darter food
Larger snails = darter food to be harassed whenever it sticks out of its shell
Larger inverts = darter food to be chased, corners, bitten (shake head to dislodge something), eat whatever breaks off
Folks new to natives sometimes think darters are hard to feed... but actually darters are eating machines... predators on inverts... contantly hunting the crevices and eating whatever they find...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#9
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:49 PM
Michael, you're the man, that's it exactly.
#10
Guest_Okiimiru_*
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 01:35 PM
Snails = darter food
Inverts = darter food
Larger snails = darter food to be harassed whenever it sticks out of its shell
Larger inverts = darter food to be chased, corners, bitten (shake head to dislodge something), eat whatever breaks off
Folks new to natives sometimes think darters are hard to feed... but actually darters are eating machines... predators on inverts... contantly hunting the crevices and eating whatever they find...
Good. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I was first inspired to buy the darters because there are leeches in my aquarium. (Also, Etheostoma spectabile is really beautiful. But you can't buy every fish you think is pretty.) Yeah, the thing that really made me decide to try them was their ability to eat the leeches. The leeches are horrible. They stick to you and it's gross and I was afraid to reach my arm in to clean the tank. I tried raising my salinity to nearly salt water (the swordtails didn't mind, but neither did the leeches), I tried squishing them every time I saw one, and I even bought some levamisole hydrochloride (but I haven't used it because it would kill a lot of other stuff in the tank, not just the leeches). I looked into loaches, which eat snails, but they all grow too large for a 55 gallon tank. So too do the african cichlids that eat snails. Hearing about how darters eat invertebrates was a godsend, I was so desperate. I haven't seen any leeches since I added them, so so far so good. And they're even eating the sanils that I had given up on ever removing! Darters are awesome.
Edited by Okiimiru, 13 July 2010 - 01:37 PM.
#11
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 04:16 PM
I looked into loaches, which eat snails, but they all grow too large for a 55 gallon tank.
Yo-yo loaches would fit the bill.
#12
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 04:54 PM
That sounds like Japanese or Chinese mystery or trapdoor snail Cipangopaludina (=Bellamya) japonica or chinensis, rapidly expanding invasive species. First imported by Asians as food, and now popular with garden ponds because they can filter feed as well as scrape algae. Illegal now in NC but it's too late; they're established in many rivers.
I have an apparently livebearing species that is locally abundant, but I can't ID it and I'm not sure if it's native or invasive. The young seem to start life about the size of a pinky fingernail (haven't seen them born, but they appeared at this size shortly after introduction to the tank) but even at that size they do seem to get eaten more often than not. So far I have no survivors.
#13
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:34 AM
Yo-yo loaches would fit the bill.
They prefer soft, acidic water. My water's a pH of 8.4, outside of their range. Everything I read on them calls for a pH of 6.5 to 7.5. But yeah, they're cute. I considered them.
#14
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:11 PM
They prefer soft, acidic water. My water's a pH of 8.4, outside of their range. Everything I read on them calls for a pH of 6.5 to 7.5. But yeah, they're cute. I considered them.
I think they would be fine. My water usually runs between 7.5 and 8.0 and my three Yo-yos are healthy and active. If you were going to breed them, you'd want to pay closer attention to the pH, but most fish aren't that picky. Optimum values for kuhli loaches are around 6.3 to 6.8 and mine successfully spawned in the same tank as the Yo-yos.
But I shouldn't talk about non-natives here.
Sunfish like snails, too. Some of the smaller species would go well with the darters.
Edited by schambers, 15 July 2010 - 02:15 PM.
#15
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:07 PM
hehehe New Zealand mud snail?
(with all the invasive species destroying NZ ecosystems, we tend to find it bizarre (and sad) that we finally managed to export one of our own)
(with all the invasive species destroying NZ ecosystems, we tend to find it bizarre (and sad) that we finally managed to export one of our own)
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