Let's go easier on new members collecting/keeping fish they shouldn't be.

Part of what is lost in this most recent discussion is that a forum user who talks about something, ignorant or not, that is illegal, on the NANFA board puts NANTA in a bad light. You can debate the liability, but the fact is that if someone comes here and talks about the things they did, knowingly or not, the organization and the whole resource use is put in a bad light and potentially in some form of jeopardy. It's information on the world wide web and guess what, the people that make the rules and enforcement, or people who work with them, use the world wide web. This is an instance where the best insterests in the forum and more importantly NANFA often take precdent and cause a zero tolerance attitude. Members have been contacted about their actions and words from resource agency representatives. Just a fact...

Derek, that makes two of us (the whole NANFA changing the direction of professional career).

Why is nobody getting what I've been saying?
I am stating quite clearly the rules of this board that you when you become a member have to click and little button that says "I agree to these conditions of use"..

These rules are: (And can be found at the top of every page)
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*Have respect for other users of this forum. We are all here because we share the same interest

*No profanity is allowed on this forum.

*No obscene language or pictures.

*No illegal fish sales or trades will be tolerated on this board.

*No spamming or illegal activity will be tolerated.

*Please stay on topic in threads. This makes life easier on your moderators.

*Please keep posts informational. Don't post for the sake of posting. Complements are always welcome but please refrain from single word or emoticon posts.

*Please do not post copyrighted material or photos. If you want to reference copyrighted material, please provide a link.

*Operating multiple accounts to bypass admin imposed restrictions will result in an immediate ban.

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Members who collect native fishes from the wild and maintain them in private aquaria are encouraged to comply with the following Code of Ethics:

* It is the responsibility of members to acquaint themselves with, and abide by, the collecting, fishing and fish transfer regulations of each Country, State or Province in which they collect, transfer, or ship fish.

* Collecting must be done in an environmentally sound and responsible manner, which includes, but is not limited to: a) not removing numbers of fishes beyond that which one requires or is capable of sustaining; b) taking all reasonable actions to prevent negative impacts on the habitat in which one collects; c) respecting private property rights; and d) complying with any law-enforcement, natural-resource, or other conservation officer or agent encountered in the field.

* Members who enjoy collecting and maintaining fishes do so of their own accord. Except for specific programs funded and/or sponsored by the Association, NANFA does not sanction any specific collection and/or captive maintenance of native fishes.

* Not all native fishes are suitable for aquaria, and some species may test the skills of even the most experienced aquarist. Therefore, members are encouraged to research the biology and captive requirements of each species before an attempt is made to remove them from the wild.

* Fishes or other aquatic organisms must not be relocated or introduced into any outdoor bodies of water, even to places where they were originally collected (except catch and immediate release), including specimens raised in private aquaria, without permission from the appropriate governing agency. Members must realize that there are complicated and often unknown ecological processes at work in aquatic systems which may make fish introductions detrimental to the system. Potential problems from such introductions include displacement of native species, spread of disease, and the loss of genetic diversity via hybridization.

* All reasonable attempts should be made to maintain fishes with the utmost regard for their safety and health, which includes, but is not limited to: maintaining sufficient water quality; providing water chemistry, temperature, oxygen levels and foods appropriate for each particular species; species compatibility; and the safe and humane transport of fishes from the wild to the aquarium. Sick or infirm specimens should be euthanized in a humane manner and disposed of properly.

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How you go about telling someone something is your prerogative and I've been echoing the same that most have that a better approach is desired when dealing with this within the guidelines of this forum. What is the major contention that I'm specifically saying is related to content and what is allowed content within a given thread or post on this forum. You can not address one without the other as a strict limitation has been placed on how far such topics and posts will be allowed. It is my job to address this content issue and often times also the responses to this.

"How you go about telling someone something is your prerogative"; "This is an instance where the best insterests in the forum and more importantly NANFA often take precdent and cause a zero tolerance attitude".

I said I would not post on this anymore......call me a liar . The point of the thread is to "*Have respect for other users of this forum. We are all here because we share the same interest", that is the first rule listed for this forum. I believe this thread was started because some members and moderators think that they dont have to follow this rule when addressing new users or the uninformed. NOBODY IS SAYING THEY ARE ALLOWED TO BREAK THE RULES OR LAWS of Nanfa or state and federal laws; we are just saying that people ARE breaking this first rule (being rude and snobby is being disrespectful), and nobody is barring them from posting or even threatening too although they are doing great deal of damage to Nanfas ability to recruit new members. Nobody that I've seen (and certainly not myself) has been telling Moderators or knowledgeable members that they shouldnt tell new members and the general public that breaking the law isnt allowed, or that its not allowed on this forum , were just saying that it could be done in a nicer way....one that conforms to the first rule of the Nanfa forum . Thanks again Joe.

Joe,

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Can the membership say everything in a way that nobody would be offended? I'd say probably not. Could we be a little more polite with some newer members? I'd say we probably could. Should we have to walk on egg shells with new members? I'd say no and newer members should take a little time to see what the forum is all about before posting (a good rule of thumb for any forum).

I also have to ask if some of what people find as "rude" is really rude. My sister-in-law has big feet. I could say she has an unusual ability to walk on snow or her shoes require more material to construct than an average person but in the end I would just be sugar coating the simple fact that she wears size 13 shoes and is 5' 9". Perhaps we can sugar coat a little but I'm not sure you'll convince the forum participants this is honest or the best way to go. I can say that I will be more careful but I'm not likely to tell my sis-in-law her feet are small or tell her I didn't think they made shoes that big.

Uland, I agree no one should have to walk on eggshells; we should just treat other people how we would want to be treated in the same situation. "*Have respect for other users of this forum. We are all here because we share the same interest." I am not trying to attack anyone, I just feel anyone who represents Nanfa should try to adhere to the first rule of Nanfa while posting on this public forum. I agree with the Moderators that no one should be breaking the law or violating Nanfas rules . I agree with Kanus that "If I am reading the content of these posts correctly, we are debating whether to take a stern "Not Allowed" position rather than a "Well this is against the law because..." stance. WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE HERE! That, in the grand scheme of things, SHOULD be the most important priority for NANFA in an effort to aid conservation of these species, since education fosters love and regard for the environment." I have children and if I yelled loudly and cussed at them everytime they interrupted me writing posts on the computer , they would just grow to hate me and wouldnt listen or talk to me at all when I wanted to talk to them.....but ive found if I kindly stop them and inform them their interrupting and tell them Ill be off the computer in 15 min. and to hold that thought, they are a little annoyed but actually listen to me and obey me alot better . Thanks Joe.

And with that.....

Everyone just be nice is the message.

This topic has run its course and has seen Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion... Time to die...