Help needed please: Sick Bluegill & Exhausted Owner! :)
#1 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:29 AM
We have a 16,000 gallon backyard pond. Inhabitants are 10 large koi and 5,000,000,000 bluegill...ok, not really but 9 turned into "a lot more" quickly. A week ago Monday, we drained and cleaned the pond. When putting fish back, I noticed that one of my big bluegill (saucer-sized...2.5 y/o) has/had fin rot. Raggedy fins, flesh missing, etc. I decided to put him in a quarantine tank and treat him...thinking it would be pretty easy.
Not so much. Here is what has happened so far. I have kept a "log" of what I was doing so pardon the lingo...it's diary style:
MONDAY-WED:
I setup a 20L quarantine tank...only half full b/c that was all I could carry initially...I have since added 2 more gallons to make it 12 (am adjusting medicine quantities w/ gallonage increase) and will keep adding water as I bring it in from the pond and make it room temp.
He has been in there since Monday evening. I do not have a filter...only a bubbler.
I am testing the water daily and so far, nitrates/nitrites are very low and besides the water being a little hard (always is), it looks good.
The water is at room temp...around 67-68 degrees in our 100+ y/o house. LOL
I put in aquarium salt for freshwater fish.
THURS:
I am on my 4th day of treating with Marycyn. The initial prescribed treatment is 5 days.
He will not eat in the tank.
FRIDAY:
Well, he has gone from fin rot to now having fluffy stuff on his fins too.
Amazing what happens when you do your water tests CORRECTLY. The ammonia was at 2.0.
Added filter (hello idiot) and did a water change...15 minutes later...he starts swimming like a happy fish. 30 minutes later...he eats SIX worms!!! First time he has eaten all week!
I'm so excited I could cry. I'm such a girl. ROFLOL
Started him in TriSulpha drugs at advice of store for fungus on fins. Had to remove carbon from filter...TS kills all bacteria in tank.
SUNDAY:
Ammonia out of control again - not time to do a water change according to TriSulpha directions but have to do it anyway.
MONDAY:
Unhappy fish...unhappy owner...stupid pet store employee at generic pet store #1. TriSulpha doesn't treat what my guy has. He has saprolegnia....(or whatever it's called...wooly cottony stuff on his fins)....not body fungus, which is different.
Fin fungus is eating quickly and the fish is not well.
Go to pet store..pick up QuICK Cure...malachite green/formalin combo.
Pick up outrageously $$$ packet of Bio-Spira...some live bacteria that is supposed to eat ammonia.
Dumped in the bio-spira, put the filter back in trying to get ammonia back under control (at 2.0 on my test kit - Pond Master Liquid Test Kit).
TUESDAY:
12:30AM - Fish doing badly. Swimming w/ only one good fin and half of his one raggedy fin left on the right side. Scooting on the aquarium floor, mostly backward...then forward a little. Every now and then shaking like he is vibrating or something. Very odd!!!! Testing the ammonia for the 10000th time today...it's high again. 20% water change (one of a million I have done...also aquarium salt here and there and everywhere).
Put in QuICK cure b/c the fungus is aggressive and getting to the meat of the guy...red edges showing and he looks bad. Fish immediately looks like he is coughing...I freak out.
Scour the internet and find a remote reference that says that members of the Sunfish family (BLUEGILL) are particularly affected by malachite...it's toxic to them. I cuss.
Find another reference that says that you can treat sensitive fish at half strength.
Nothing like a 50% water change at 1am, eh?
I run out to the pond...check the temp...only about 6 degrees diff. between that water and tank water and pond water is testing zero ammonia. Refill 1/2 of tank w/ 8 gallons of tap water and 2 gallons from pond, tempered w/ warmer water from tap (yes, dechloring h20) to put more good bacteria into the tank.
SO...ALL OF THAT TO SAY...here we are now.
He is still cottony but since the water change and lower ammonia (now reading .5), he looks better...calm..breathing right...etc.
What do I do now? My .10 bluegill is now $70.10. LOL I'm not giving him up w/o a fight.
Currently:
20L tank full
Filter on but carbon out
Aerator
50% (a little less) treatment of QuICK Cure
Aquarium salt
Mega cottony fins
Fungus starting to eat into the flesh attaching the fins to the body
Don't know if I should get the antibiotics back in the water too or not...?
Will I need another 50% treatment of quick cure...if so...when?
I'm not even sure if I just leave the quick cure in the water or if i do a water change or what.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MADE IT THRU THIS MESS...Thank you. LOL
I love this little guy and would really appreciate your help asap!
Andrea
#2 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:31 AM
#3 Guest_edbihary_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:00 AM
http://forum.nanfa.o...h...ost&p=11788
Hopefully that will help you.
Oh yeah, also, you should update your profile with your location information.
#4 Guest_smbass_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:47 AM
#5 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:54 AM
I was on the right track w/ the TriSulpha in the first place - even though the fish seemed to get worse?
If I go back on the Trisulpha, how do I control the ammonia since it spikes when I use it?
Should I quit the Quick Cure or continue to use it?
With all of the salt and water changes, I'm not sure what my salinity is right now - Tbs/gal. My test kit will test for salt. If I tell you what it says...can you tell me what it means? LOL
I"m going to get a pic of him...might help. Thanks for the input thus far!
I updated my profile info, BTW.
#6 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:11 AM
By the way...is Binox better than TriSulfa?
Attached Files
#7 Guest_smbass_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:13 AM
#8 Guest_smbass_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:14 AM
#9 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:25 AM
#10 Guest_teleost_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 11:27 AM
I'm probably not the best person to be answering questions on curring diseases I have no real training in this. That being said if I have something sick I just use salt and frequent water changes but using the bacterial treatment it seems ed has been successful with his pickerel, so thats why I suggested that, I have no personal experience with the stuff.
I'm in same boat as smbass and I like the way you put it.....
this is just about the best advice you can offer without really knowing exactly whats wrong the fish.if I have something sick I just use salt and frequent water changes
For the record, I'd stay away from products that give you an ammonia spike. This indicates a disruption in the bio filter and can easily cause a situation where "the cure is worst than the disease".
#11 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 12:31 PM
For the record, I'd stay away from products that give you an ammonia spike. This indicates a disruption in the bio filter and can easily cause a situation where "the cure is worst than the disease".
So does Binox cause an ammonia spike? Should I switch to it instead of the TriSulfa?
Will salt water alone cure what ails him? If so, should I do a salt "dip" and then just put him back in the pond?
I need to do antibiotics right away if I'm going to do them b/c I am out of town Friday AM till Sun PM.
#12 Guest_smbass_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 12:36 PM
As a side note (don't do this now! lets get some discussion first) I had an idea and I'm currious what others think... Since we (as a group) seem to have proven that hydrogen peroxide can be an effective tool in getting rid of algae (which correct me if I'm wrong) is cyano bacteria could it possibly be effective against bacteria growth on fish such as this? In the case of algae using a pipet or a turkey baster to direct the hydrogen peroxide in the direction of algae has almost imeadiate effects and it does not seem to have any adverse effects on biological filtration. Would it be logical to shoot some directly onto the infected areas of the fish? I have used this with great results for getting rid of algae with 0 effect on my fish and I have wondered about using it for treating fish as well. I know someone did mention that they use it to prevent fungus on eggs but don't recal anything else. What are others thoughts on this? do you think it's worth a try with this persons fish? I don't think it would hurt but would it help?
#13 Guest_sandtiger_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 12:45 PM
#14 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:03 PM
Antibiotics?
No?
Salt only?
Copper sulfate to kill the columnaris? Acriflavin? Partridge in a Pear Tree? LOL
I can't get the water "pristine". No matter how hard I am trying, I keep getting a reading of at least 1.0 on the ammonia.
*banging my head on the wall*
#15 Guest_ademink_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:14 PM
#16 Guest_sandtiger_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:37 PM
Um....so I'm really confused now. LOL
Antibiotics?
No?
Salt only?
Copper sulfate to kill the columnaris? Acriflavin? Partridge in a Pear Tree? LOL
I can't get the water "pristine". No matter how hard I am trying, I keep getting a reading of at least 1.0 on the ammonia.
*banging my head on the wall*
The choice to use meds is up to you. You gotta take the advice that people give you and pretty much make a decision based on that. Personally, I don't like meds but in the case of fungas I think it's very much needed. I would use both salt and meds in this case. As for getting the water pristine, you must do the best you can. This is extreamly important. I told you before I tried treating bettas for fungas...do you know how they got it? Ammonia. A freshwater clam died in their tank and unseen by me caused an ammonia spike. Within days the bettas were covered in fungas and ammonia burns. I don't think you can save your fish if you have ammonia in that tank. There are things you can try. Do you have an established tank? If so move some filter media over to your hospital tank. Do you have tanks/ponds with extra gravel/rocks/driftwood/decor...that might help as well as long as it has the bacteria on it needed to get rid of ammonia.
#17 Guest_smbass_*
Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:45 PM
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