Algae control

Since I'm wanting to establish some fully native tanks, what do most of you use for algae control in your planted tanks? The things I'm accustomed to using (shrimp and other inverts) probably wouldn't last with some tankmates.

Water changes and scrubbing. Using a soil substrate instead of just gravel also seems to keep algae from even starting up (except hardspot) and has done wonders with a very large planted I moved that was having a nasty algae problem from too much light.

Since I'm wanting to establish some fully native tanks, what do most of you use for algae control in your planted tanks?

I find Google works wonders against algae: http://www.google.co...forum.nanfa.org

Always search before asking -- you'll get better info if you've done background research and can ask for specific follow-up about things in the archive which weren't full explained. Linking to old posts and asking for more info is also a really good strategy.

As for me, I like ramshorn snails. I got a ton on some val I got from threegoldfish. They're attractive, and do a great job on algae. They don't stand a chance in my tank with a pumpkinseed, though.

Water changes and scrubbing. Using a soil substrate instead of just gravel also seems to keep algae from even starting up (except hardspot) and has done wonders with a very large planted I moved that was having a nasty algae problem from too much light.

Never used a soil substrate before. I imagine it would be a bit of a beating in terms of water clarity.

I find Google works wonders against algae: http://www.google.co...forum.nanfa.org

Always search before asking -- you'll get better info if you've done background research and can ask for specific follow-up about things in the archive which weren't full explained. Linking to old posts and asking for more info is also a really good strategy.

As for me, I like ramshorn snails. I got a ton on some val I got from threegoldfish. They're attractive, and do a great job on algae. They don't stand a chance in my tank with a pumpkinseed, though.

I find that in a message board format, there isn't really good enough indexing to make searching for specific info real user friendly.

I have, however, done enough searching to have found your general viewpoint about new users and repetitive posts.

Edit - I should clarify. One of the benefits of a message board format is that it allows a constructive dialogue that a static medium like publications, books, or, for that matter, Google do not. If you don't wish to engage in a topic which you consider elementary, or noobish, or what-have-you, the simply don't open the message. Part of exploring your interest in a subject is discussing the subject with other people who share that interest, and for people new to the forum, that might mean covering old ground.

Edited by benmor78, 25 June 2008 - 04:15 PM.

Never used a soil substrate before. I imagine it would be a bit of a beating in terms of water clarity.

Only for about the first week, and that's if you stir it the hell up when you put water in. Look into Walsted type tanks, or low tech/natural tanks. There are a couple of threads on the subject on this board and many more to be found elsewhere.

Only for about the first week, and that's if you stir it the hell up when you put water in. Look into Walsted type tanks, or low tech/natural tanks. There are a couple of threads on the subject on this board and many more to be found elsewhere.

Why would a soil substrate stop algae growth?

I find that in a message board format, there isn't really good enough indexing to make searching for specific info real user friendly.

I have, however, done enough searching to have found your general viewpoint about new users and repetitive posts.

Edit - I should clarify. One of the benefits of a message board format is that it allows a constructive dialogue that a static medium like publications, books, or, for that matter, Google do not. If you don't wish to engage in a topic which you consider elementary, or noobish, or what-have-you, the simply don't open the message. Part of exploring your interest in a subject is discussing the subject with other people who share that interest, and for people new to the forum, that might mean covering old ground.

Sorry if you took any offense. The key problem with repeating the same questions over and over is that it makes it *even more* difficult to find the real gems of knowledge the next time someone searches. If there are 10 algae control threads, each with 5 posts, that's a lot more searching and browsing than would be required to find the info if everyone just kept adding to established threads.

You're right, the search function here isn't great. Google is better. Just use "site:forum.nanfa.org" in the search to search only here. I find I usually get what I'm looking for by using that strategy.

Why would a soil substrate stop algae growth?

It gives the plants the nutrients they need to out compete algae

It gives the plants the nutrients they need to out compete algae

Ah, so theoretically, with a laterite layer in the substrate and CO2 injections, you might have the same result as with a soil substrate?

Ah, so theoretically, with a laterite layer in the substrate and CO2 injections, you might have the same result as with a soil substrate?

Well, the idea is that the nutrients are in the soil and not available to algae. A lot of "high tech" plant tanks rely on dosing fertilizers into the water column.

Laterite isn't as good as soil. Although it does have a better CEC than gravel, its particle size results in very little surface area. Along with CEC, surface area is critical to getting nutrients to the plants. Soil substrate provides very high surface area and a much higher CEC. Laterite may sequester phosphorus, which can be beneficial if it is in your water supply. But any other iron source will do the same, such as rusty steel wool. Alum will do the same thing, and will settle into the substrate or get caught up in the filter (which is good, as it will get good water contact).

My take on laterite is that it is a way to get people to part with their hard-earned cash. Sure, it's better than just gravel. And some people love it in high-tech tanks. But it really isn't necessary.

Well, in that case, could you do a layer of soil in the substrate (say, 3-4") with a top layer (say, 2") of gravel, and thus cut down on the soil particles in the water column?

Well, the idea is that the nutrients are in the soil and not available to algae. A lot of "high tech" plant tanks rely on dosing fertilizers into the water column.

Laterite isn't as good as soil. Although it does have a better CEC than gravel, its particle size results in very little surface area. Along with CEC, surface area is critical to getting nutrients to the plants. Soil substrate provides very high surface area and a much higher CEC. Laterite may sequester phosphorus, which can be beneficial if it is in your water supply. But any other iron source will do the same, such as rusty steel wool. Alum will do the same thing, and will settle into the substrate or get caught up in the filter (which is good, as it will get good water contact).

My take on laterite is that it is a way to get people to part with their hard-earned cash. Sure, it's better than just gravel. And some people love it in high-tech tanks. But it really isn't necessary.

Yes, that is exactly how it is done in most cases. A few folks out there have more natural looking pond tanks without the gravel layer, but it does make the water murkier. Somewhere on here I have posted about what I like for soil substrates. I use a layer of leaves (for additional organic matter), soil, and top off with 1/2 to 1" of gravel (depending on the size of the tank and the activity level of the fish

edit: here's a link to a discussion about substrate for Newt's huuuuge tank. Granted, you'll probably want a little less soil depth. In a 55-gallon I'd use maybe 3" of soil (with leaves) with 1" of gravel.
http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=4093

Excellent, thanks. I'll try to find that.

Yes, that is exactly how it is done in most cases. A few folks out there have more natural looking pond tanks without the gravel layer, but it does make the water murkier. Somewhere on here I have posted about what I like for soil substrates. I use a layer of leaves (for additional organic matter), soil, and top off with 1/2 to 1" of gravel (depending on the size of the tank and the activity level of the fish

Yikes - you're too fast! See edit to post above.

Note that some folks swear by hydrogen peroxide, and it has been discussed at length in other topics. Your goal should be to establish a balance (using soil, water changes, etc) to naturally remove nutrients and allow plants to out compete algae, but you can use peroxide if all hell breaks loose on the algae front.
http://www.google.co...forum.nanfa.org

Yes, that is exactly how it is done in most cases. A few folks out there have more natural looking pond tanks without the gravel layer, but it does make the water murkier. Somewhere on here I have posted about what I like for soil substrates. I use a layer of leaves (for additional organic matter), soil, and top off with 1/2 to 1" of gravel (depending on the size of the tank and the activity level of the fish

edit: here's a link to a discussion about substrate for Newt's huuuuge tank. Granted, you'll probably want a little less soil depth. In a 55-gallon I'd use maybe 3" of soil (with leaves) with 1" of gravel.
http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=4093

Speaking of which, the substrate in that tank has compacted a bit; the leaves have decayed, and the soil seems to be infiltrating the gravel layers above and below. There are some interestingly colored areas where the soil is against the glass which I assume represent different microorganismal colonies. I'll have to take some pictures in the next couple of days.

There is also a gorgeous lush growth of some short filamentous alga on some of the driftwood. I don't know why people waste their time trying to strap Riccia to driftwood.

This is kind of a pain but the results are excellent

Mineralized Soil Substrate

Also a good article about Algae from the same site.

This is kind of a pain but the results are excellent

Mineralized Soil Substrate

Also a good article about Algae from the same site.

Interesting site. I have a few thoughts on their process:
The "mineralized" soil mix is essentially soil with natural mineral fertilizers put into it. Clay is a component of soil, as are silt, sand, and organic materials. If you go and dig in your back yard below the A horizon (often called topsoil), you will hit a clay layer. In some areas, e.g. the southeast, the clay layer is at the surface (topsoil has been eroded away). This is fine to use in the tank. No need to buy expensive pottery clay.

The main difference between that soil mix and what I like is that I increase the large organic matter in the soil whereas they remove it. As leaves and other organic debris break down, they release CO2 and can actually sequester nitrogen during the decomposition process. And it leaves behind material with a great CEC.

(Also of note - this type of "mineralized" soil, in which minerals are added, is different nitrogen mineralization - whereby organic nitrogen like protein is converted to inorganic forms like ammonium and nitrate.)

(Second also of note - algae discussion is very good; however, there are many other algae that cause green water, not just Euglena.)

Newt, I didn't see any photos from the finished setup in that thread. What kind of fauna do you have, and can you post some pics of the finished product?

Speaking of which, the substrate in that tank has compacted a bit; the leaves have decayed, and the soil seems to be infiltrating the gravel layers above and below. There are some interestingly colored areas where the soil is against the glass which I assume represent different microorganismal colonies. I'll have to take some pictures in the next couple of days.

There is also a gorgeous lush growth of some short filamentous alga on some of the driftwood. I don't know why people waste their time trying to strap Riccia to driftwood.