in the past few years certain fish pop up and where to find them is prime/top secret.
is this just to keep someone from running a net up the feeder creek and knocking out the gene pool from said area?

in the past few years certain fish pop up and where to find them is prime/top secret.
is this just to keep someone from running a net up the feeder creek and knocking out the gene pool from said area?

i think people like the power of having the info with the mentality of "its mine" oh well.

i think people like the power of having the info with the mentality of "its mine" oh well.

I don't think this is it at all. Most people that keep site information private do so for very good reason. Many of these sites contain imperiled species and it is in the best interest of the fish to limit the potential hazards that may be associtated with folks dipping or seining around in their habitat. Other species, such as SRBD, though abundantly dispersed across their range, have rather particular habitat needs to thrive. This habitat is often restrictive and easily disrupted or destroyed. There are also typically fewer fish in a population of such a fish than there are with fish found in larger waterways with a much broader acceptable habitat preference. I think it would be wise of everyone to think twice before handing out their site information, especially on the internet which has absolutely no filter. There are certainly locations that can withstand heavy collecting effort with abundant fish of many species and loads of appropriate habitat but this is not always the case.

i will add that its not just for SRBD. i had an issue last year when i was new to this trying to find golden shiners and i still found people very unhelpful.

i will add that its not just for SRBD. i had an issue last year when i was new to this trying to find golden shiners and i still found people very unhelpful.

In this instance, do you feel confident that people had the information that you wanted and withheld it for some reason? Is it possible that just no one had good, reliable collecting spots for golden shiners in your area?

Tony,
Depending on where you live, SRBD might be uncommon and I'll bet found only in headwater streams. A topic on a public forum disclosing a location for SRBD might put that population in jeopardy. Since this is a public forum, nothing can stop unscrupulous collectors from taking several hundred or even several hundred people taking several dozen each. In either case, not good for a headwater fish.

With all that said, come on out to my neck of the woods and I'll show you more SRBD than you can shake a stick at

No its pretty apparent that people wanted them themselves. Now that I've found plenty of goldens everywhere. But I know now the only spot in the state with NRBD and I prob wouldn't tell people. Same goes with my collecting spots for mudminnows and tadpole madtoms. But that's because we are talking about species with 1 or 2 spots in the state. I'd gladly tell people where goldens, commons, suckers, BND, and pumpkinseeds are lol. But yes if u have 1 spot in a state don't tell just anyone. But if u know people that you can trust that's a diff story

No its pretty apparent that people wanted them themselves. Now that I've found plenty of goldens everywhere. But I know now the only spot in the state with NRBD and I prob wouldn't tell people. Same goes with my collecting spots for mudminnows and tadpole madtoms. But that's because we are talking about species with 1 or 2 spots in the state. I'd gladly tell people where goldens, commons, suckers, BND, and pumpkinseeds are lol. But yes if u have 1 spot in a state don't tell just anyone. But if u know people that you can trust that's a diff story

I guess I'm just a doubting Thomas but withholding Golden Shiner locations? I don't know but I'll bet Dustin is on to something.
I should also mention it's uncommon for me to sample Golden Shiner locally and difficult to sample where abundant. I know, Illinois isn't Massachusetts.
If I had sites in Mass, I'd give them to you Bumpy .

Edit to add:


I just realized that you're just "Bumpy" and that alone might put people off. We don't know who you are and with an organization this size, it's good to get to know folks.

Haha thanks! Although now I'd like to think I am more of a veteren now and goldens just don't do it for me haha. I prefer to find the harders species. My goal is to catch every species the state has. Has anyone else done this? In 1 year I'd say I'm 70 percent done. Some fish will prob take some years. I'm not counting sturgeon and channel cats ect. Lol

I know the State of Wisconsin DNR post where they find EVERY species of fish they find while sampling and the general numbers to the public through a website. You can go to this website, pick a species and find where they have sampled this fish and the general numbers that were collected at that location. I find this map extremely helpful when i go out looking for particular fish.

Witholding golden shiner records seems almost laughable, they are everywhere in the NE Atlantic. I would venture a guess you're reading too far into internet chatter that has no inflection or emotion unless made blatantly clear, positive or not. As for SRBD in Ohio, I've never gotten any wind that it was a taboo location to keep secret either. Quite frankly, the posts of the more seasoned Ohio members regarding trip reports have gone down somewhat in the past few years. As has already been pointed out, tons of this information on the web regardless of your state. For example, Ohio EPA put up a google map of nearly all their biological monitoring sites last year. It has tons of information and is hotlinked to their reports, which if you dig WAY in the back you can see what species they collected and where. I was mining those for potential collection localities almost a decade ago before they were even really easy to wade through. Now a few clicks and points and scrolling and you can find whatever you want. I think many people have come to expect things to be handed to them a little too easily here when there has always been a general feeling that many things can be figured out with a simple google search or your state resource agencies data.

In addition to unscrupulous collecting, many people go through their due diligence to make a repore with private land owners to obtain access to sites and don't want that potentially ruined.

Edited by ashtonmj, 14 June 2010 - 04:54 PM.

I know the State of Wisconsin DNR post where they find EVERY species of fish they find while sampling and the general numbers to the public through a website. You can go to this website, pick a species and find where they have sampled this fish and the general numbers that were collected at that location. I find this map extremely helpful when i go out looking for particular fish.

thats nice of your state do to this for the public.
public data rules!

I would venture a guess you're reading too far into internet chatter that has no inflection or emotion unless made blatantly clear, positive or not.

im serious....i had responses such as "any mass pond" i did find it funny that after i posted pictures of the goldens i had been catching that the same member then PMed me with "where did you find them can you show me" haha. which i gladly told him. that felt good....although i have been there 3x now and i havent even seen 1....hmmmm....hope thats just bad luck.

Haha thanks! Although now I'd like to think I am more of a veteren now and goldens just don't do it for me haha. I prefer to find the harders species. My goal is to catch every species the state has. Has anyone else done this? In 1 year I'd say I'm 70 percent done. Some fish will prob take some years. I'm not counting sturgeon and channel cats ect. Lol

Here may be part of your problem. There are those who are collectors, and those who are naturalists.
If finding some rare fish satisfies your ego by marking something off a list, that may not bode well with those who seriously love their passions. I don't feel mine nor anyone's site withholding is a jealous fury of secrecy at all. The issue is more with the take and leave mentality - jump in, tear crap up, get what you're looking for, and hightail it - it's offensive. Especially with headwaters species, it doesn't take much to deplete populations, even the largest. I spend ample time finding, enjoying, and appreciating valued sites and want to enjoy my time learning and observing these delicate creatures over and over again. With that, I will personally ensure my information is only passed to those I feel have similar passions to keep it this way.
Call it what you will.

Edited by natureman187, 14 June 2010 - 05:47 PM.

Here may be part of your problem. There are those who are collectors, and those who are naturalists.
If finding some rare fish satisfies your ego by marking something off a list, that may not bode well with those who seriously love their passions. I don't feel mine nor anyone's site withholding is a jealous fury of secrecy at all. The issue is more with the take and leave mentality - jump in, tear crap up, get what you're looking for, and hightail it - it's offensive. Especially with headwaters species, it doesn't take much to deplete populations, even the largest. I spend ample time finding, enjoying, and appreciating valued sites and want to enjoy my time learning and observing these delicate creatures over and over again. With that, I will personally ensure my information is only passed to those I feel have similar passions to keep it this way.
Call it what you will.

well the person that with held spots at the time to me used them to collect and put them on a hook to catch bass....so he didnt share your logic. but someone being a collector and someone being a naturalist is the same thing. you are out there catching them and looking at them is the same as someone going out and seining. i know when i got out seining there are hundreds of times that i just go out for pics. and i hardly keep fish that i catch. and i dont think its an ego thing to catch every fish your state has to offer. i find it more like exploring everything your state HAS to offer. why would someone not want to catch every species and see it? if they dont then i find that odd. like i said i can understand rare species....id like to think of myself as a naturalist as i dont kill animals at all. i dont agree with hunting either. and ive spent ample time researching species and discovering them on my own. for instance the mudminnows in my state

I don't think this is it at all. Most people that keep site information private do so for very good reason. Many of these sites contain imperiled species and it is in the best interest of the fish to limit the potential hazards that may be associtated with folks dipping or seining around in their habitat. Other species, such as SRBD, though abundantly dispersed across their range, have rather particular habitat needs to thrive. This habitat is often restrictive and easily disrupted or destroyed. There are also typically fewer fish in a population of such a fish than there are with fish found in larger waterways with a much broader acceptable habitat preference. I think it would be wise of everyone to think twice before handing out their site information, especially on the internet which has absolutely no filter. There are certainly locations that can withstand heavy collecting effort with abundant fish of many species and loads of appropriate habitat but this is not always the case.

Dusti, very well put.
thank you for your incite.
and my use of taboo is most likely the wrong word here.

Edited by CATfishTONY, 14 June 2010 - 06:34 PM.

Dustin, very well put.
thank you for your incite.
and my use of taboo is most likely the wrong word here.

Tony, SRBD are very few and far between in our area, and the populations are small. That may be the reason you are having trouble. I personally guard my SRBD spot. I will not give the site out to just anybody. Nothing personal, but it is my site, just as I might not just divulge the location of my best flathead catfish spot to just anyone. I made the mistake of taking one guy there, and then heard from three different guys how they had heard that they could get SRBD there. Well, I learned my lesson.
Also are you sure the locations are taboo, or simply do very few people know of them. Hit the upper Mad river, and you will find plenty. As far as the Lebanon ohio area, There is only one population that I know of, and it is tiny, and on private property. Also, Many populations in Adams county.

I'll tell you a story, Tony, that might help to illustrate the problem. I wanted some fish once, a common fish, but I didn't know where to find them. I pestered someone for a location, and after a while, I got one. I went there with a friend and collected some fish, no harm, no hassle. Friend then proceeded to announce on internet forum where we went. Other people went there and spent quite some time fooling around (and I'm pretty sure went onto private property in the process) and again, announced it on the internet forum. Luckily nothing really bad happened, but I was unhappy and worried about it. I didn't want to annoy the person who gave me the site, I didn't want to annoy the people living near the site, and I wanted to be able to go back there again someday. That's when I learned to be close-mouthed about such things.

Tony, SRBD are very few and far between in our area, and the populations are small. That may be the reason you are having trouble. I personally guard my SRBD spot. I will not give the site out to just anybody. Nothing personal, but it is my site, just as I might not just divulge the location of my best flathead catfish spot to just anyone. I made the mistake of taking one guy there, and then heard from three different guys how they had heard that they could get SRBD there. Well, I learned my lesson.
Also are you sure the locations are taboo, or simply do very few people know of them. Hit the upper Mad river, and you will find plenty. As far as the Lebanon ohio area, There is only one population that I know of, and it is tiny, and on private property. Also, Many populations in Adams county.

hi Matt, i understand. this thread was just intended to get others ideas on the mater of prime spots.in the past i have gave up catfish spots as well and it hurt my soul to hear about 20 plus year old fish in the frying pan.
taboo was the wrong word for sure,next time i will put a little more thought in the thread tittle before posting.

ps, your pm on the forum is down for some reason.