They suck them right out of the shells, though orangethroats don't hold a candle to greenside darters when it comes to consuming snails.how is it they eat the snails?
How to breed orange throated darters? (Etheostoma spectabile)
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, Jul 12 2010 02:48 PM
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#41
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Posted 22 August 2010 - 10:47 AM
#42
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Posted 22 August 2010 - 12:31 PM
how is it they eat the snails?
They cock their heads around, listening I think to where the snail is. Then, once they've gotten a fix on where the snail is, they dart forward very quickly and snap their jaws around the fleshy bit of the snail. They swim with all of their might, pushing the snail down into the gravel, clenching and ripping with their jaws. And they rip the snail out of its shell.
It looks, to the casual observer, as if the darter is pinning the snail between the gravel and its head, and is using the gravel backing to push its way farther into the shell. At the end of the process, there is one full darter and one empty snail shell.
Edit: Oh, and one time I found the gooey part of a snail outside of its shell. At first I didn't recognize it, but then I looked closer and saw the mouth and antennae and foot of the snail. And that was attached to this really long piece of flesh. I think a darter ripped it out of its shell and then lost it or lost interest in it. I left the corpse in the tank for about a week, but none of the fish ate it.
Edited by Okiimiru, 22 August 2010 - 12:37 PM.
#43
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Posted 23 August 2010 - 09:20 PM
how is it they eat the snails?
They suck 'em out of their shells. Ssshhhllluuurrrppp!
#45
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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:46 AM
Update: The darters, especially my favorite colorful male, now grow anticipatory when I approach the tank. They readily eat the sinking Wardley shrimp pellets. 
Many more of them are plumping out now, including the ones that had previously appeared too skinny.
Yesterday I watched my favorite colorful male 'chew' a shrimp pellet. It worked on its mouthful for about a minute, gills flapping and head bobbing up and down. Then it swallowed it and sat there, impressed with itself. And stared right back at me.
They are no longer shy.
Many more of them are plumping out now, including the ones that had previously appeared too skinny.Yesterday I watched my favorite colorful male 'chew' a shrimp pellet. It worked on its mouthful for about a minute, gills flapping and head bobbing up and down. Then it swallowed it and sat there, impressed with itself. And stared right back at me.
They are no longer shy.
Edited by Okiimiru, 27 August 2010 - 10:49 AM.
#46
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:03 AM
I still don't see any swordtail fry, which I take to mean as though if there were darter fry, they would be getting eaten. This is a real problem. I don't see how I can raise fry in the same tank as an aggressive fry eater. Because in order for there to not be any swordtail fry, those darters have got to be hunting them down, stalking them and eating them. So even if there were darter fry, they're all getting eaten.
Maybe the darters will get less aggressive/hunting-and-stalking now that they've switched to pellet food instead of the live food they ate in the wild. I noticed that one just sat and stared at a leech yesterday. It bit it once and then was like, "meh" and watched as it escaped down into the gravel. That's a good sign as far as their pursuance of fry goes, but a bad sign for me trying to exterminate the leeches.
It would be helpful if anyone had any tips about what Etheostoma spectabile fry did after hatching. Do they go to the surface or stay on the substrate? I don't know.
Maybe the darters will get less aggressive/hunting-and-stalking now that they've switched to pellet food instead of the live food they ate in the wild. I noticed that one just sat and stared at a leech yesterday. It bit it once and then was like, "meh" and watched as it escaped down into the gravel. That's a good sign as far as their pursuance of fry goes, but a bad sign for me trying to exterminate the leeches.
It would be helpful if anyone had any tips about what Etheostoma spectabile fry did after hatching. Do they go to the surface or stay on the substrate? I don't know.
#47
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:28 AM
Update:
So, on the plus side, I know that the Etheostoma spectabile aren't starving. On the down side, they were all too full to do anything but watch as two leeches rolled around on the substrate, mating. *headdesk* Okay, so, it's a good thing the darters are full. They're definitely not in the mood to pursue live food like the swordtail (or their own) fry. But couldn't they have at least exterminated the leeches first? *sighs*
So, on the plus side, I know that the Etheostoma spectabile aren't starving. On the down side, they were all too full to do anything but watch as two leeches rolled around on the substrate, mating. *headdesk* Okay, so, it's a good thing the darters are full. They're definitely not in the mood to pursue live food like the swordtail (or their own) fry. But couldn't they have at least exterminated the leeches first? *sighs*
#48
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:02 AM
What do you suppose the leeches are eating? snails? darter eggs? I haven't heard of leeches eating pellets, but I guess it's possible. But I doubt that feeding pellets will cause the darters to lose their interest in live food.
Update: So, on the plus side, I know that the Etheostoma spectabile aren't starving. On the down side, they were all too full to do anything but watch as two leeches rolled around on the substrate, mating. *headdesk* Okay, so, it's a good thing the darters are full. They're definitely not in the mood to pursue live food like the swordtail (or their own) fry. But couldn't they have at least exterminated the leeches first? *sighs*
Edited by gerald, 12 September 2010 - 10:09 AM.
#49
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:24 PM
Some leeches eat detritus. I rather like them in the aquarium. Very cool looking when they swim.
#50
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:55 PM
But I doubt that feeding pellets will cause the darters to lose their interest in live food.
Well, I did feed them blackworms and brine shrimp yesterday, as a special treat. That was at least 12 hours before the leech mating incident, though.
#51
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 02:56 PM
Some leeches eat detritus. I rather like them in the aquarium. Very cool looking when they swim.
Are yours massive like mine are? When they get five inches long, they freak me out.
#52
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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:48 AM
Are yours massive like mine are? When they get five inches long, they freak me out.
No, I've only had them be a couple inches long.
#53
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:58 PM
Does anyone have any photos of the type of environment Etheostoma spectabile lives in in the wild? I'm curious where they live because I can tell they're breeding in my tank, but they keep eating all of their young. Maybe if I give the young the types of hiding spaces they have in the wild, some will survive.
Thank you
Thank you
#54
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Posted 19 September 2010 - 04:37 PM
I bought a bag of frozen cocktail shrimp and, after putting them through a small holed cheese grater, added some to the aquarium. The darters aren't as interested in them as they were the live brine shrimp, but they did seem more interested than they usually are to flakes or pellets. My goal is still to stuff them so full that they won't eat fry (the swordtail fry or their own).
The darters have really bad eyesight. I think they see movement, not color or shape.
They can't see the chunk of shrimp, but they can smell that it's there.
The darters have really bad eyesight. I think they see movement, not color or shape.
They can't see the chunk of shrimp, but they can smell that it's there.
Edited by Okiimiru, 19 September 2010 - 04:51 PM.
#55
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Posted 19 September 2010 - 05:45 PM
Orangethroats are a typical stream darter that hunts by facing in to the current and waiting for something flow towards them. So shape and color don't really matter, but quick reflexes for lunging forward do. I think in an aquarium they learn about the shapes they're offered on a regular basis, though, so they'll mostly ignore swirling flake food and wait for the brine shrimp or whatever.
#56
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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:12 AM
I avoid cocktail shrimp. They are usually cooked (or par cooked) and fish seem to prefer raw over cooked. Their small size also creates difficultly when grating.
#57
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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:36 AM
Yeah, I've tried them with striped and scarlet shiners, and orangespotted sunfish, and no one likes them. So now I have a nearly-full bag of them in my freezer...
#58
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Posted 20 September 2010 - 06:21 PM
Their small size also creates difficultly when grating.
True. I ran into that myself. When the piece of shrimp got too small to safely grate, I used a wooden spoon to push it into the grate. The spoon took some damage, but my hand didn't.
#59
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Posted 30 September 2010 - 06:25 PM
Update: I am now feeding them grated frozen cocktail shrimp every day because they love it so much. Their bellies are plumper and they are not shy, not at all. When I stick my face near the tank, they come towards the front and stare right at me in anticipation of the food. How cute
Except for this peculiarly colored male:
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He's mean to the other males, ignores the females, and hates me.
Here's my favorite male (the big, beautifully colored one that never antagonizes the other males):
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He's so cuuuuute XD
In an effort to give the fry more hiding spaces, I've maximized the plants. Picture:
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Size reference: That blue fish in the middle left is a male betta, three to four inches long.
Except for this peculiarly colored male:
061resize.jpg 26.92KB
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062resize.jpg 20.94KB
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063resize.jpg 29.51KB
0 downloadsHe's mean to the other males, ignores the females, and hates me.
Here's my favorite male (the big, beautifully colored one that never antagonizes the other males):
009resize.jpg 50.02KB
0 downloadsHe's so cuuuuute XD
In an effort to give the fry more hiding spaces, I've maximized the plants. Picture:
012resize.jpg 89.06KB
0 downloadsSize reference: That blue fish in the middle left is a male betta, three to four inches long.
Edited by EricaWieser, 30 September 2010 - 07:05 PM.
#60
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Posted 04 October 2010 - 08:49 AM
The darters are eating the shrimp that I feed them every day to the point where their stomach is bulging and they've still got a piece of shrimp hanging out of their mouth.
Honestly, I'm going to give these darters about another month or so. If they don't stop hunting down and eating all of the fry in the tank by November (If I don't see fry by November), then I'll know that they're not eating them for nutrition, but for fun. And I'll find them a new home. 'Cause eating your own young for fun is just creepy.
Gouramis do that. The dwarf blue powder variety. It doesn't matter how much they're full or their imminent stomach explosion is going to kill them, they insist upon hunting down and eating every last fry in the tank. I just can't work with that. There's no way to breed them except the extremely labor and fish-tank intensive method of separating a male and female from the main tank, the pair laying eggs, removing the pair, and then raising the eggs by hand. No. I just don't have the space to have so many tanks.
Honestly, I'm going to give these darters about another month or so. If they don't stop hunting down and eating all of the fry in the tank by November (If I don't see fry by November), then I'll know that they're not eating them for nutrition, but for fun. And I'll find them a new home. 'Cause eating your own young for fun is just creepy.
Gouramis do that. The dwarf blue powder variety. It doesn't matter how much they're full or their imminent stomach explosion is going to kill them, they insist upon hunting down and eating every last fry in the tank. I just can't work with that. There's no way to breed them except the extremely labor and fish-tank intensive method of separating a male and female from the main tank, the pair laying eggs, removing the pair, and then raising the eggs by hand. No. I just don't have the space to have so many tanks.
Edited by EricaWieser, 04 October 2010 - 08:54 AM.
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