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Some of those fish definitely look female...paler and with shorter fins.
Elassoma Gilberti
Started by
Guest_Okiimiru_*
, Aug 22 2010 01:19 PM
1023 replies to this topic
#1002
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:53 AM
I spoke too soon. Two fish were in compartment C when I got home from work yesterday. This morning they were in compartment D. I figured out how they were doing it, though, so this weekend I'll drain the tank a little and use Great Stuff foam to plug up the gaps and cracks. Now I'm sorta glad there are test fish in the tank before the pygmy sunfish arrive.In other news, the tank dividers work. The fish are staying in that 19 gallon region.
#1003
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:57 PM
I drained the tank down to halfway and fixed the gaps in the background. I'm glad the dario dario were in here before the Elassoma were. I felt really nervous applying Great Stuff foam to a tank with fish in it. I did the best I could to avoid the foam touching the water (it's not fish safe until it's dry) and I think I did a good job. No deaths yet; all nine dario dario are still swimming around seemingly happily. They are staying in their compartment so far.
Also I think it's safe to say for sure that the insta-cycle took. It's different to know that the insta-cycle should work than it is to see it actually work. So far so good. Neither the new 75 gallon tank nor the 55 gallon tank that donated two of its three filter sponges have had any dead fish. The plants are growing great. There are some brown diatoms hanging out, but that's just what seems to happen the first month or two with this Winston-Salem kitty litter. It happened in 2011, too. Once the available silica is used up, I'm sure they'll go away like they did last time. There are pros and cons to $4 planted tank substrate.
The auction for the wild caught Elassoma gilberti is ending in just under four days, which means I could get the fish as early as September 4th. Recently, Zimmerman's Fish added captive (pond?) bred Elassoma gilberti to the website for sale, a new addition. I hadn't been counting on them having any in stock but now that I know they do I'm a lot less stressed out about winning the auction.
Also I think it's safe to say for sure that the insta-cycle took. It's different to know that the insta-cycle should work than it is to see it actually work. So far so good. Neither the new 75 gallon tank nor the 55 gallon tank that donated two of its three filter sponges have had any dead fish. The plants are growing great. There are some brown diatoms hanging out, but that's just what seems to happen the first month or two with this Winston-Salem kitty litter. It happened in 2011, too. Once the available silica is used up, I'm sure they'll go away like they did last time. There are pros and cons to $4 planted tank substrate.
The auction for the wild caught Elassoma gilberti is ending in just under four days, which means I could get the fish as early as September 4th. Recently, Zimmerman's Fish added captive (pond?) bred Elassoma gilberti to the website for sale, a new addition. I hadn't been counting on them having any in stock but now that I know they do I'm a lot less stressed out about winning the auction.
#1004
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:59 PM
I won the auction! I bought two groups of six Elassoma gilberti! I'm so excited!
Oh, by the way, all of the dario dario are staying in their compartment except for one, which seems to have found a one-way passage into A and can now somehow go freely back and forth between A and D. *headdesk* I think it's going behind the background. On the upside it's good to find this all out now, before there are babies in these compartments and an adult getting in might mean all of their deaths.
The dario dario are readily eating the grindal worms and are becoming quite fat. Good.
The diatoms are in full swing and have completely taken over D, the compartment with the least flow. It's like a brown spider web in there. Gross, but temporary. The 10 gallon (compartment E) is like solid diatom. The diatoms are managing to smother and impede plant growth. I'm glad the 10 gallon is optional in the rotation, as it's experiencing more dramatic swings than the four linked compartments. I'm using a 300 watt heater in the 75 gallon tank because it's positioned under an air conditioning vent, so just to keep it at 75 F or so. The 10 gallon is freezing cold to the touch and I am considering buying a heater for it. But the elassoma and dario dario technically don't need heaters, so I'm holding off for the moment.
The Elassoma are coming! I'm so excited
Oh, by the way, all of the dario dario are staying in their compartment except for one, which seems to have found a one-way passage into A and can now somehow go freely back and forth between A and D. *headdesk* I think it's going behind the background. On the upside it's good to find this all out now, before there are babies in these compartments and an adult getting in might mean all of their deaths.
The dario dario are readily eating the grindal worms and are becoming quite fat. Good.
The diatoms are in full swing and have completely taken over D, the compartment with the least flow. It's like a brown spider web in there. Gross, but temporary. The 10 gallon (compartment E) is like solid diatom. The diatoms are managing to smother and impede plant growth. I'm glad the 10 gallon is optional in the rotation, as it's experiencing more dramatic swings than the four linked compartments. I'm using a 300 watt heater in the 75 gallon tank because it's positioned under an air conditioning vent, so just to keep it at 75 F or so. The 10 gallon is freezing cold to the touch and I am considering buying a heater for it. But the elassoma and dario dario technically don't need heaters, so I'm holding off for the moment.
The Elassoma are coming! I'm so excited
#1005
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:16 PM
Congrats! Hope both fish get along. I hope the dario manage to breed as well...
#1006
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:12 AM
Scarlet Dario do fine down to at least 60 F, maybe even lower. The fry look and act very much like Elassoma fry.
#1007
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:36 PM
I'll try to condense this from several posts into one post.
The fish had been getting from compartment A to compartment D behind the background. In my attempts to push the background more into the glass wall I dislodged it from where it was wedged in. I had forgotten how extremely buoyant it was and how difficult it had been to wedge it in the first time (it took several attempts). This time around it was completely impossible, and I threw the background into a dumpster, a single tear in my eye. Oh well. I removed the dario dario to a holding container, drained the tank, and attempted to use Great Stuff foam to secure the tank dividers (which, without the background, were now two inches too short) to the back wall. The Great Stuff foam did manage to reach the back wall. But after a day underwater there ended up being too much foam, it was too buoyant, and it floated up, bringing up a lot of the front silicone connections (already repaired after the background incident ripped it off) with it.
*deep breath* Long story short, right now the situation is that all the fish are in all the compartments, the elassoma gilberti are due any day now, and I've got to somehow figure out a way to find all the fish again, put them again into a holding container, drain the tank, cut the great stuff foam so that it reaches the back wall, and then use a new tube of silicone to attach the great stuff to the back wall, using silicone to firmly attach it to the dividers. I don't want to sew new dividers or sew extensions on the existing dividers if could instead trim the Great Stuff foam to take up the space. Sewing those things was super annoying, but I have enough materials so I could if this method fails.
My goodness this is a lot of work. My advice for future divided tank builders is: It might not be worth your time to use a 3-D background in your divided tank. Maybe maybe. As it is for me right now, I would have saved two weeks and several potentially laborious tank drainings (sink-faucet attachment, so it wasn't) if I had just taken the background out from the very beginning and used silicone as my only construction tool.
I'll let you all know when the gilberti arrive. As it is right now, if they arrived today they'd go into a holding tank with the dario dario and the 75 gallon tank's plants while I finish construction on the dividers. I don't know what I'm going to use tonight as the temporary holding tank because my usual emergency backup tank is holding river plants at the moment. My husband's probably not going to be pleased when I steal his laundry bucket for fishy purposes, but it looks like it's come down to that. Silicone takes a day to cure so the fish are going to need a legitimate holding tank and not just my photo tank like they were in last time.
The fish had been getting from compartment A to compartment D behind the background. In my attempts to push the background more into the glass wall I dislodged it from where it was wedged in. I had forgotten how extremely buoyant it was and how difficult it had been to wedge it in the first time (it took several attempts). This time around it was completely impossible, and I threw the background into a dumpster, a single tear in my eye. Oh well. I removed the dario dario to a holding container, drained the tank, and attempted to use Great Stuff foam to secure the tank dividers (which, without the background, were now two inches too short) to the back wall. The Great Stuff foam did manage to reach the back wall. But after a day underwater there ended up being too much foam, it was too buoyant, and it floated up, bringing up a lot of the front silicone connections (already repaired after the background incident ripped it off) with it.
*deep breath* Long story short, right now the situation is that all the fish are in all the compartments, the elassoma gilberti are due any day now, and I've got to somehow figure out a way to find all the fish again, put them again into a holding container, drain the tank, cut the great stuff foam so that it reaches the back wall, and then use a new tube of silicone to attach the great stuff to the back wall, using silicone to firmly attach it to the dividers. I don't want to sew new dividers or sew extensions on the existing dividers if could instead trim the Great Stuff foam to take up the space. Sewing those things was super annoying, but I have enough materials so I could if this method fails.
My goodness this is a lot of work. My advice for future divided tank builders is: It might not be worth your time to use a 3-D background in your divided tank. Maybe maybe. As it is for me right now, I would have saved two weeks and several potentially laborious tank drainings (sink-faucet attachment, so it wasn't) if I had just taken the background out from the very beginning and used silicone as my only construction tool.
I'll let you all know when the gilberti arrive. As it is right now, if they arrived today they'd go into a holding tank with the dario dario and the 75 gallon tank's plants while I finish construction on the dividers. I don't know what I'm going to use tonight as the temporary holding tank because my usual emergency backup tank is holding river plants at the moment. My husband's probably not going to be pleased when I steal his laundry bucket for fishy purposes, but it looks like it's come down to that. Silicone takes a day to cure so the fish are going to need a legitimate holding tank and not just my photo tank like they were in last time.
#1008
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:49 PM
How about just letting the Elassoma and Dario live together, and siphon off the bottom into a bucket every few weeks to harvest fry & eggs of both species, then raise the fry together in small tanks.
BTW - what's the long-term aquarium-safety record with Great Stuff foam? Has it been well-tested on fish and inverts for toxicity or metabolic disruptors?
BTW - what's the long-term aquarium-safety record with Great Stuff foam? Has it been well-tested on fish and inverts for toxicity or metabolic disruptors?
#1009
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:37 PM
It's safe. The company figured out it was aquarium safe, added some black pigment, and marketed it for ponds. http://greatstuff.do...pond-and-stone/BTW - what's the long-term aquarium-safety record with Great Stuff foam? Has it been well-tested on fish and inverts for toxicity or metabolic disruptors?
I had 'Gaps and Cracks' in my no-water-change saltwater tank for a year with thriving sensitive marine fish and copepods. Well, until I killed them. But that way my own fault. Great Stuff is indeed aquarium safe.
#1010
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:41 PM
That's an interesting idea. I might try and siphon off the bottom and stick what comes off in the 10 gallon tank, then keep doing the monthly rotation in the 75 gallon.How about just letting the Elassoma and Dario live together, and siphon off the bottom into a bucket every few weeks to harvest fry & eggs of both species, then raise the fry together in small tanks.
My reason for being attached to the rotation strategy is because it worked really, really well when I tried it before. I stuck some Elassoma gilberti in a 10 gallon for a month, took them out, and got loads of fry. I want guaranteed success with this endeavor, or as close to guaranteed as I can make it.
#1011
mattknepley
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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:41 PM
Quite a few dart frog enthusiasts use Great Stuff on viv builds. There might be a couple different types, though, so pay attention when choosing.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#1012
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:48 PM
There are different types. Gaps and Cracks (the original) is safe, as is Pond. I won't vouch for the others.Quite a few dart frog enthusiasts use Great Stuff on viv builds. There might be a couple different types, though, so pay attention when choosing.
Edit: I know someone who used 'windows and doors' (it's white, Gaps and Cracks is beige, and Pond is black) with no problems in a cichlid PVC pipe background.
#1013
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:28 PM
I sat my husband down to have someone to talk to about this and we did the math.How about just letting the Elassoma and Dario live together, and siphon off the bottom into a bucket every few weeks to harvest fry & eggs of both species, then raise the fry together in small tanks.
In a divided tank, I would rotate the fish once a month. Eggs take about three or four days to hatch. Any fry that hatch before the parents are removed are assumed eaten (there is some survival rate but it's much lower than 100%). So every month I would be saving 100% of 3-4 days' worth of fry. This means 26 days' worth of fry out of 30 are mostly lost. This is a 13% rescue rate.
Now let's examine Gerald's plan to siphon out fry. I could reasonably expect myself to siphon out fry every weekend. I could put the water into the 10 gallon tank. It would take me about half an hour to do all of that, which is about 4 hours a month. Then 3-4 days' fry would be rescued out of 7, a maximum of 50% rescue rate assuming I get all the eggs. Then once the fry get large enough in the 10 gallon, I could return them to the 75.
The 10 gallon tank is really critical to this plan. The fry would be definitely separate from their parents. If it was just a 'leave the fry with their parents' sort of plan like my old 55 gallon tank was, I wouldn't go for it. But there's still a way to protect the fry.
It would be bad math to choose to go with the divided tank method over the once a week suction method. So, I ripped out all the dividers and am going to either figure out how to use my sink-siphon or buy one of the $4 not-sink-siphons. I'm officially ready for the Elassoma gilberti to arrive. Oh, but bad news, one of the dario dario died, not sure how. Given how much work has been going around in this tank, I probably squished it. The rest of them are sitting in a container with all the plants as I sort out the cloudy mess that happened from ripping out all the dividers. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two more died; I couldn't get them out of the tank as gently as I wanted to.
Oh well. Theoretically they'll breed back.
#1014
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:25 AM
That was me being overly pessimistic, they're fine.I wouldn't be surprised if one or two more died; I couldn't get them out of the tank as gently as I wanted to.
At this point I am really impatient for the Elassoma gilberti to arrive. I have received neither word that they have shipped nor a tracking number. It's been a week since the vendor contacted to confirm receiving payment and I feel moderately forgotten. (I'm sure we all know how it feels to have a tank set up and ready for a while and still not have the fish in it) Of course they are having to wade in alligator infested water to catch me not the auction amount of 6 but fully 12 fish, so if there's any vendor I can forgive for slow shipping, it's this one.
#1015
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:36 AM
Here's a list of what I am feeding the tank, as I'm sure people will ask:
Before people ask no, I will not be using brine shrimp. We don't get along.
Does anyone know a good place to order live blackworms? None of my local pet stores carry them.
Edit: I went on ebay and found a pound for $35.99 including shipping. That seems like a pretty good price (less than anything I've seen) so I bought them. They should be here next week. I think these blackworms are going to be a fairy regular purchase every few months or so, so if you know of anywhere else to buy them, please let me know.
- Petsmart cubed frozen bloodworms, which I will hold with planting tweezers in the tank water and then cut off of the cube with scissors, so as to decrease the size
- Live grindal worms, which I grow (grow? breed?) on sponges in plastic boxes using dog kibbles. This is the main (twice daily) food.
- Live microworms, which I ... breed? on oatmeal in tupperware containers using a coffee filter
- Ken's Golden Pearls
- Live blackworms (in-tank population)
Before people ask no, I will not be using brine shrimp. We don't get along.
Does anyone know a good place to order live blackworms? None of my local pet stores carry them.
Edit: I went on ebay and found a pound for $35.99 including shipping. That seems like a pretty good price (less than anything I've seen) so I bought them. They should be here next week. I think these blackworms are going to be a fairy regular purchase every few months or so, so if you know of anywhere else to buy them, please let me know.
#1016
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:40 PM
I got a reply, Monday September 9th! I'm so excited. Yay, fishies. I will post a picture here when they arriveAt this point I am really impatient for the Elassoma gilberti to arrive...
As per a suggestion from a friend, I'm not going to buy a heater for the 10 gallon tank because I will try to hatch the eggs and raise the fry at a colder temperature than their parents are spawning at. Maybe this will encourage more female badis offspring, who knows, but I'm documenting what I'm doing so you all know how to replicate this if it works out. I know that I had no problem getting both genders of Elassoma gilberti in my unheated, room temperature tank, so since it's pygmy sunfish safe, why not? Some reports from Europe say they get an unbalanced gender ratio in their elassoma offspring, so I'm going to try to carefully replicate what I did last time (no heater) and see if I once again get equa-gendered fry.
#1017
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:57 PM
D'oh, I forgot one. #6: live powdered green water, a tiny tiny tiny bit in the 10 gallon fry tank.
- Petsmart cubed frozen bloodworms, which I will hold with planting tweezers in the tank water and then cut off of the cube with scissors, so as to decrease the size
- Live grindal worms, which I grow (grow? breed?) on sponges in plastic boxes using dog kibbles. This is the main (twice daily) food.
- Live microworms, which I ... breed? on oatmeal in tupperware containers using a coffee filter
- Ken's Golden Pearls
- Live blackworms (in-tank population)
#1018
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 02:43 PM
It's safe. The company figured out it was aquarium safe, added some black pigment, and marketed it for ponds.
Great stuff is safe, but the black pigment is deadly.
#1019
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:34 PM
Hope your fish cooperate with your plans! And I hope that you'll be able to find a solution to the infamous problem of "scarlet bachelors"!
#1020
Guest_keepnatives_*
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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:19 PM
Try Eastern Aquatics for blackworms
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