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New Darter Tank

Started by Guest_aquachromis_* , Feb 03 2011 04:21 PM

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17 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_aquachromis_*

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:21 PM

This will be my first native tank so I want to make sure I get it right the first go around. Although I'm new to natives, I'm not new to fish keeping in general. I've been reading the forums the last week or so, and I just joined NANFA last week as well. I have 3 tanks I plan on setting up with natives but I've decided the first tank will be dedicated to darters. So, onto the tank. It's a 20 gallon long that I want to set up as a river tank. It will probably only house darters but I may add some shiners, still up in the air on that. I'm also planning on ordering the fish online. I plan to set the tank up with the river tank manifold similar to the one that some people use for keeping hillstream loaches. As far as decor goes, river rocks, small "boulders" and pea gravel mixed with sand substrate, some small driftwood, and maybe some aquatic mosses. I may actually try to get most of that from a local stream or river.

So some question:

1. Can I keep more than one species of darter in this tank? I like the Rainbow, Orangethroat, Tennessee Snubnose, Savannah, Seagreen, and Blackbanded Darters that I've found available online. Obviously I can't keep all of those but would any 2 work?

2. How much current should I shoot for and how much is too much for a 20long tank? I thought I might use a maxijet 1200 that I bought several years ago. I'm afraid this may be overkill though and I may need to buy a new powerhead with a lower gph rating.

3. Do I need to worry about hybridization if I keep more than one species in the same tank?

4. How many of each species should I initially stock with?

Thanks in advance for any help/answers.

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:42 PM

2. How much current should I shoot for and how much is too much for a 20long tank? I thought I might use a maxijet 1200 that I bought several years ago. I'm afraid this may be overkill though and I may need to buy a new powerhead with a lower gph rating.

Try setting up the tank and seeing how it is. As long as there are different levels of current in the tank (areas of high, medium, and low flow), then the darters can hang out in the level of current that suites their mood.
Going with a bigger powerhead and then blocking some of the flow with rock placement is easier than having too small of a powerhead and wishing you could make it a faster flow.

3. Do I need to worry about hybridization if I keep more than one species in the same tank?

No. If they breed (a big if), they'll eat all their young in a tank that small.

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#3 Guest_andyavram_*

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:38 PM

If you are planning on collecting your own substrate why not collect your own fish? That a big part of the fun of this bobby. Missouri isn't lacking on species (not sure on you regulations though).

Also, you would probably have a hard time creating too much flow for darters. These are mostly riffle fishes.

Andy

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#4 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:39 PM

I'm not sure of the laws in MO, but if you buy all your fish, you're missing a lot of the fun.

Most darters are compatible with each other. I've had more aggression between 2 fish of the same species than I have 2 fish of different species.

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#5 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:24 PM

1. Can I keep more than one species of darter in this tank? I like the Rainbow, Orangethroat, Tennessee Snubnose, Savannah, Seagreen, and Blackbanded Darters that I've found available online. Obviously I can't keep all of those but would any 2 work?

2. How much current should I shoot for and how much is too much for a 20long tank? I thought I might use a maxijet 1200 that I bought several years ago. I'm afraid this may be overkill though and I may need to buy a new powerhead with a lower gph rating.

3. Do I need to worry about hybridization if I keep more than one species in the same tank?

4. How many of each species should I initially stock with?

1) I second the advice to get out there in the water and learn about the fish first hand. Getting out is a big part of the fun and allows you to learn a lot more about the fish. Yes, two species would work. Of the ones you listed I think all are Etheostoma except for the blackbanded, which is a Percina. Blackbandeds actually have a reasonable swim bladder and can maitain their position a little higher in the water column, so they would easily work with any of the other Etheostoma, which really have no swim bladder and need to rest almost always on the bottom.
2)The maxijet will work, unless you are blowing hte water out of the tank, you are not pushing too hard for the darters.
3)No, probably not, especially if you go with one Etheostoma and one Percina
4)I would start with say 6, maybe 4 of the Etheostoma species you like, and 2 of a Percina.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#6 Guest_aquachromis_*

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:01 PM

Thanks for all the quick replies. I guess I'm not opposed to collecting my own fish. It's just not something I've ever done before so I'd have no idea where to even start...What type of net would be best? I'll research MO fishing regulations further but I'm pretty sure they aren't super strict.

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#7 Guest_decal_*

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:09 PM

I hate to pile on, but you really should get out and catch your own fish. It's not like you live down here in Texas or, God forbid, our darter poor Western states. I caught darters for the first time recently, and I can't tell you how awesome it was to finally kick some rocks and end up with something other than bland minnows in my net. :smile2:

Any dip net with sufficiently small holes should work. I caught rainbow darters and sculpin years ago in Roaring River State Park, you might try there.

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#8 Guest_aquachromis_*

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:07 AM

I caught rainbow darters and sculpin years ago in Roaring River State Park, you might try there.

Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately that's about 5 hrs from Saint Louis. The fish of Missouri book shows collection info for each species and there seem to be several that are nearby. What's the best time of year to try collecting fish for the aquarium?

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#9 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:53 AM

Collecting during cool temperatures is optimal. Warmer temps stress out fish a lot. As long as you can get in the water, the fish are ready to go.

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#10 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:01 PM

Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately that's about 5 hrs from Saint Louis. The fish of Missouri book shows collection info for each species and there seem to be several that are nearby. What's the best time of year to try collecting fish for the aquarium?

The best time of the year to see beautiful colors is the spring. Most fish breed in the spring/early summer and darter's colors are stunning. Most darters can be easily caught in the spring, summer, and fall. If you want to add some shiners/minnows, get them in cooler weather (spring/fall) as they will stress easy and likely develope finrot and die if you collect them in the summer. When I have collect minnows in the summer, I have caught them near my house and went directly home to cooler water.

I have used these nets found in the pool section of Walmart for a few years. They are cheap and easy to replace when you're out. I use a painters pole from lowes and drill holes in it to mount the nets
Posted Image

I just recently ordered a Perfect Dipnet and look forward to using it. You may want to look into this as you can end up spending more in the long run on several cheap nets.

The method is fairly simple and you'll perfect it as you go. You can drag the net across the bottom of a riffle, or hold it at the lower section of a riffle and kick the rocks and bottom up while moving towards the net. (this is a common question, somebody should make a youtube video.
Check THIS out. The last photo on the left is a person kicknetting. You can also use a small siene in the same way, though I prefer the dipnet.

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#11 Guest_aquachromis_*

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 03:31 PM

Thanks for the link and photo Josh. That certainly looks easy enough. I guess I'll plan on getting the tanks up, running, and cycled over the next month or two, then plan on getting out once the weather improves a bit. I still need to build stands for the aquariums, and get the lighting put together. If all goes well I'll post photos here of progress for comments and suggestions.

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#12 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 04 February 2011 - 03:42 PM

this is a common question, somebody should make a youtube video

Seining in fast water at NANFA convention 2006... oh by the way this was in Missouri even!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#13 Guest_aquachromis_*

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 05:51 PM

I posted a question on the Missouri Aquarium Society's board and received a list of local areas that I could try for collecting, including several areas that have good Darter populations. They also have an annual collecting trip in late Spring.

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#14 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:38 PM

That's great Michael, I'm glad that darter dancing is available through YouTube!

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#15 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:24 AM

While there's all sorts of access on the Meramec, I'd take the hour drive down to St. Francois SP off 67. Between Big River and Coonville Creek in the park, you can see an awful lot of species of fish there, many of them easily kept in aquaria. Would be a nice snorkel too on a warm summer day.

For a mind blowing snorkel, head a little further down to Sam A. Baker SP on the Big Creek portions behind the nature center and through the campground. That is a monster WOW.

You might also check out the MDC site for where to fish:

http://mdc.mo.gov/fi...an-i-go-fishing

Both the Atlas and the Boat Ramp applications are excellent resources. You're lucky to live in a state that values its outdoors enough to make a voluntary tax to support conservation.

Todd

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#16 Guest_star5328_*

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 03:22 AM

When you're kick seining, be sure to really focus and spend extra time shuffling your feet right at the base of the net (Thanks Nate Tessler). You almost have to kick them into the net because they're sitting on the bottom, and I've noticed this does actually help quite a bit.

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#17 Guest_lgyure85_*

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 01:11 AM

I posted a question on the Missouri Aquarium Society's board and received a list of local areas that I could try for collecting, including several areas that have good Darter populations. They also have an annual collecting trip in late Spring.

I know this was over a year ago, but I plan on collecting outside of St. Louis in the Spring. Do you happen to still have that list?

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#18 Guest_harryknaub_*

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:38 PM

Thanks for all the quick replies. I guess I'm not opposed to collecting my own fish. It's just not something I've ever done before so I'd have no idea where to even start...What type of net would be best? I'll research MO fishing regulations further but I'm pretty sure they aren't super strict.

This suggestion may be out there, but I believe that the AKA's convention is in Saint Louis this year and I think that our own Charlie Nunziata is presenting at that convention. Maybe if he participates in the collecting activities, he or someone may be able to give pointers.

Harry Knaub

I guess next time I should check the dates be fore replying. Opps

Edited by harryknaub, 31 January 2012 - 03:41 PM.