Monday I went on a trip with the aquatic biology class. We caught some big eyed shiners and orange throated darters. My professor knew I wanted to start a native tank and that I am most interested in darters. I work for him doing water quality test for a local river. He said the darters wouldn't do well without a current and have high O2 needs. I haven't tested the O2 in my tank, but the spot they came from was 10.1 something... i forgot the units.
I currently have a 45gallon tank with a 70 gallon filter. I don't have any airstones or anything in there yet, probably need to add one.
Anyways he let me have the shiners(2) and he is taking the darters back tomorrow (3hr drive i don't envy him one bit). The shiners are the first addition to my tank and have been doing very well. I was kinda disappointed at first because they were boring minnows, but watching them has been a lot of fun. They're eating freeze dried bloodworms very well and are super active fish.
I decided not to argue with him since he took me up there and I used his equipment. He said I could keep some of the local creole darters just fine. I plan to go this weekend.
I also ordered some white worms and red worms to culture, are these acceptable for darter and the shiners? I couldn't find any blackworms. I figured darters were pickier than the shiners.
Do orange-throated darters really need current or just a good airstone?
Started by
Guest_lizzysilvertongue_*
, Apr 26 2012 09:50 PM
10 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:42 PM
I hope you cycled the tank before you added those shiners.
The fish are going to love those worms you feed them. They will be very fat and happy
If the white worms don't work out try grindal worms. They're like the same thing but tolerate a higher temperature.
As for the O2 requirements, I had orangethroat darters in a 55 gallon tank with a 55 gallon filter and they did just fine. The picture I have as my profile picture is a female orangethroat climbing up in some Ceratophyllum demersum in that very same tank.
The fish are going to love those worms you feed them. They will be very fat and happy
If the white worms don't work out try grindal worms. They're like the same thing but tolerate a higher temperature.
As for the O2 requirements, I had orangethroat darters in a 55 gallon tank with a 55 gallon filter and they did just fine. The picture I have as my profile picture is a female orangethroat climbing up in some Ceratophyllum demersum in that very same tank.
Edited by EricaWieser, 26 April 2012 - 10:45 PM.
#3
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 10:47 PM
One of my favorite places on the planet(I actually have many) is a bend in a small headwater stream just a few minutes drive from my house. The early afternoon sunlight provides almost perfect viewing conditions to sit on the gravel bar on the inside of this bend and watch the deep, calm, clear hole at the tail of the small riffle of this bend. Here, I watch creek chubs, central stonerollers, southern redbelly dace, darters, and a few others that I haven’t been able to positively identify yet. One of the species of darters I see regularly in this hole can only be orangethroat or rainbow darters. According to range maps, they should be rainbows, but from my vantage point, they appear more like orangethroats. Whichever they are, they’ve made this calm, deep hole their home. They seem to set up territories in this hole. Just yesterday I watched a couple of males sparring. Occasionally, one will walk up through the gentle riffle to check out what is above, often even choosing to maneuver along the edge where there is even less current and check under rocks for morsels or other things of interest. If need be, I’m sure these guys could do quite well in a stronger current than most other fish can deal with, but so long as danger is low and competition is light, this calm, peaceful, “semi-gated” community works well for them.
It seems to me that niche species don’t always prefer their niche. They’re just capable of functioning in it better than most anyone else. Not a lot different from humans. For example; I’m quite capable of performing the duties that are required by my employer, as they are things that only humans can do, and it’s necessary that I do them well to provide for myself and my family, but given the opportunity, I’d rather be sitting on a gravel bar watching fish – and when my responsibilities allow, that’s often where I’m found.
It seems to me that niche species don’t always prefer their niche. They’re just capable of functioning in it better than most anyone else. Not a lot different from humans. For example; I’m quite capable of performing the duties that are required by my employer, as they are things that only humans can do, and it’s necessary that I do them well to provide for myself and my family, but given the opportunity, I’d rather be sitting on a gravel bar watching fish – and when my responsibilities allow, that’s often where I’m found.
#4
Guest_danawhicker_*
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:27 AM
You probably measured mg/l (milligrams/liter) or ppm (parts per million) which are the same thing and 10.1 is high, very high for an aquarium but pretty common for a fast flowing stream. Healthy aquariums usually run 5-9 ppm of O2. I've never kept orange throated darters but if the good people on this forum say you can I'm sure you can. 
#5
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:31 AM
It seems to me that niche species don’t always prefer their niche. They’re just capable of functioning in it better than most anyone else.
This is the basis for a number of other conversations... including a past thread on banded darter range expansion....and a discussion of Enneacanthus distributions. I think many of us have a mistaken belief about why a species fills a niche... it is not always because that is the only place he likes... its just because it is the place where he best out competes others.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#6
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:39 AM
I was kinda disappointed at first because they were boring minnows, but watching them has been a lot of fun. They're eating freeze dried bloodworms very well and are super active fish.
See there are no such thing as boring minnows... minnow are exciting... eager to eat and full of fun, fun, fun!
He said the darters wouldn't do well without a current and have high O2 needs.
The first part of that is not necessarily correct... but the second part is... and sometimes they are somewhat related to each other, right? Darters do fine without current, but do need higher levels of oxygen. Lots of us here have been able to keep darters with only a filter and maybe one extra powerhead... so your 45 might have been fine with maybe the addition of a powerhead and an airstone. I know we even kept rainbow darters in a 10 gallon with no powerhead and just an airstone back when I lived in Ohio.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#7
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:11 AM
If you can keep the water relatively cool, it will be better oxygenated, all things being equal. Water movement helps both to cool the water and maintain high oxygen tension in the water. Just don't overfeed the tank and it will usually be good enough.
#8
Guest_lizzysilvertongue_*
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:21 AM
Yeah i know current and cold make the water more oxygenated. I just didn't think they needed the actual flow and i could substitute with a good air stone.
Well nice to know... it's just not worth arguing with him sometimes. He has a PhD in marine biology i think, and is a little old. Nice guy I just don't think he really listens sometimes... he IS also still convenced that i need a special permit to collect fish. Tried explaining that the game and fish said I can have up to six of each species without a permit and just a fishing license. So everytime i try to ask a good place to go, he says he can get me the fish or that I need to go with hime since he has a special permit -_-*
Well nice to know... it's just not worth arguing with him sometimes. He has a PhD in marine biology i think, and is a little old. Nice guy I just don't think he really listens sometimes... he IS also still convenced that i need a special permit to collect fish. Tried explaining that the game and fish said I can have up to six of each species without a permit and just a fishing license. So everytime i try to ask a good place to go, he says he can get me the fish or that I need to go with hime since he has a special permit -_-*
#9
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:53 AM
My 2cents:
Do you need flow - No
Do you need an airstone - No
However, your fish shiners/darters will be happier with both. The flow isn't a must. If your temps get high in the aquarium (+72degrees) you may need an airstone.
My suggestion: Buy a small powerhead that has an aeration valve. You dont have to bury a stone, just use a small air pump and put the tubing in the powerhead valve. Setup the air pump on a timer and have it come on/off several times during the day...problem solved
These powerheads are basic, cheap, and I've had good experience with them
http://www.drsfoster...644&pcatid=4644
Do you need flow - No
Do you need an airstone - No
However, your fish shiners/darters will be happier with both. The flow isn't a must. If your temps get high in the aquarium (+72degrees) you may need an airstone.
My suggestion: Buy a small powerhead that has an aeration valve. You dont have to bury a stone, just use a small air pump and put the tubing in the powerhead valve. Setup the air pump on a timer and have it come on/off several times during the day...problem solved
These powerheads are basic, cheap, and I've had good experience with them
http://www.drsfoster...644&pcatid=4644
#10
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:01 PM
Yes, I was thinking someone posted something very similar to that in the thread about banded darter expansion, and I wanted to provide reference to it to give credit to the author, but after searching, I couldn't find it in there and then began to doubt where or when I'd heard or read about it. I actually started thinking that it might have been something I picked up years ago studying animal behavior in college. If you're thinking it came from that thread too, then maybe I'm not crazy. Here's a link to the thread I've been thinking it was in.This is the basis for a number of other conversations... including a past thread on banded darter range expansion....and a discussion of Enneacanthus distributions. I think many of us have a mistaken belief about why a species fills a niche... it is not always because that is the only place he likes... its just because it is the place where he best out competes others.
http://forum.nanfa.o...d-partitioning/
I do apologize if I made it sound like I was taking credit for this idea as my own original, It's not, and that wasn't my intent. I also want to thank the person who is responsible for the idea originally...whoever you are and where ever you said it. To me, it seems to be the most logical way of thinking about it when you see riffle darters living happily in a calm, peaceful pool of water right between two riffles.
#11
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:04 PM
Yes, it as here, and no, I dodnt think you were taking undue credit.
Actually, I think that this even has something to do with Todd dissertation... about what fish occupy what microhabitat... and what happens when a fish moves in or out of a community.
Actually, I think that this even has something to do with Todd dissertation... about what fish occupy what microhabitat... and what happens when a fish moves in or out of a community.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
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